Compressor Spray guns and all that Jazz

Jez6345789

I think it was @WezV who said earlier in the year in the end you need to get a compressor and a spray gun and it all gets a lot easier. 
Space at home is always a problem but I have done some clearing and now can find hopefully enough space to spray the odd project rather than trying just about every other way. 

So having a minute amount of knowledge and usage would be for occasional guitar bodies and about 5 projects built up for finishing over the last few years what sort of size of compressor do I need and which type of gone, compact and economical would be good but its really about having the right tool for the job the choice seems endless. 

thanks in advance

rexter

It really does get a lot easier! And more fun.

I mainly use HVLP turbines (daily) which might be ideal if you want something you can use a few times a year and forget about maintenance - changing oil and draining moisture etc. Also very small and should be quiet. Looking out for one of the 3 stage Fuji ones second hand would be what I would do if in a similar situation. They're incredibly economical with paint (150ml thinned 1/1 will paint a whole guitar body if you're good) and keep the spray area clean because of low overspray. Negative side - guns are expensive. But you might find the whole kit complete with a gun for somewhere around £300 if you get lucky. I'd say the lack of maintenance makes up for the expensive price and the T-75 spray gun is a beautiful tool.

But if going standard compressor you might get away with a 50l one (can get some compact upright ones that would save space) but you really need to be looking at the CFM rating and checking it is high enough to match any spray guns you intend to use. HVLP spray guns will have quite a high CFM rating and work better on a compressor that's at least 100l.

I'm actually shopping for a new compressor at the moment and seem to keep coming back to the Wolf 90/100l one. Don't think it's that compact though! Price is fine at £200-300. It will do what I need but it isn't small.

You'd ideally want a primer gun with a 1.8mm nozzle - doesn't have to be fancy, a decent 1.3 or 1.4mm nozzle gun for colours and a similar one for clear. I'd spend a bit more on them than the primer one. If you're just painting solid colours you can probably get away with just the one top coat gun and clean it well before switching from colour to clear. But if using metallics I'd get a separate gun for them. Hard to get those little sparkles completely gone!

Oh yeah - would totally recommend gravity feed guns over siphon - soooo much easier to clean, feel better in the hand too - more control and lighter.

Hope this helps! Sure Wez will chime in with his setup too

Corvus

It can be done without splashing tons of cash but there is a lot of sundry extra stuff needed.

Like rexter says you can get tankless turbines, or trad compressors with tanks & pumps. You can get away with a small comp but you do want to match the gun to the comp like rexter says. If you can fit in a 50-litre tank that's good. If it has to be 24-litre tank they can work fine too - the Aldi comp 24 litre 2.5hp comes up now & then and isn't pricey. They pump up fast but it's quite a noisy little bastard. My other half has one for her work, I've used that and also a comedy 1.5hp 24 litre as backup now & then, both can be chucked in the car and moved easily.

The more hp the more air the comp can supply, the bigger and heavier-air-demand gun you can use. I'd always buy the most hp over the most tank size. Rough rule of thumb, 1hp of pump gets about 3cfm of delivered air, the "FAD". Note comps quote displacement which is a bigger number. E.g. I have two 3hp comps quoted as 14-15cfm (displacement) but in reality they deliver 9-10cfm (FAD - free air delivery - the number that matters).
Say you have a 2hp comp, that's 6-7cfm available air delivery. Allow a bit more because you'll be running lower pressures than the numbers are calculated at. So you want a gun which demands a max of say 9cfm, but the less the better. There are lots of guns in this air demand range, but also lots that need more:

This means either what's called a 'conventional' gun, or an LVLP one - low pressure low vol. HVLP guns want a ton of air so best avoided. There's some sub-£20 low-demand ones which are decent, I have a few, one for metallics/pearls, one for clears, one for spare etc. These are well within the capability of a small comp. They're so cheap I keep a few around for when one dies, and rifle their corpses for parts to keep the others going. If you decide to go further I'll dig out the names/links etc.

You can go for higher quality guns later, these really come into their own when doing pearls, metallic, candys, where you want most control and the best atomisation.

You'd need a combined regulator/water trap;  filters out moisture and adjusts your pressure coming from the comp, in one unit. Comps beat up air and heat it which makes it wet.

Air fittings to make up hoses, there's a few standards, I stick with PCL because of the widest choice and good cost.

Ideally keep the comp out of your spray room, or it sucks in paint dust which can slowly clog the valves and quickly clog the air intake filter. Or sit it near some air, or just bung a hose on it's intake and poke that out a door or window.

Decent mask. Stuff to clean up, trays/bowls (stainless dog bowls, anything will do). Cleaning brushes, gunwash thinners. Paint strainers/filters, mixing cups, might want tack rags, panel wipe (degreaser/paw print remover), it goes on. The upfront cost can be daunting but some lasts for donks so works out OK. And once you've got the gear you'll constantly be seeing stuff to colour in...

Danielsguitars

24ltr is fine, i use one at the moment but it'll only do a a whole guitar before maybe charging up again, i only spray a few times a day so not a problem

I can also recommend the ani 150 mini gun from sprayguns direct, it is just unbelievable how good it is for the money, pots a bit crap but i can live with it, I've got a devilbiss sri and an iwatta w300 both really good guns but the ani gets the clear coats now and it cost £100 delivered, I'll definitely get another one even over the devilbiss 

rexter

@customkits that ANI gun is very interesting... seems like it would be perfect for bursts? 

I'm going to use a compressor only for flake jobs so maybe I don't even need 100l, have a tendency to go OTT.
Off topic a little but anyone ever try a dry flake gun?

Danielsguitars

rexter said:

@customkits that ANI gun is very interesting... seems like it would be perfect for bursts? 

I'm going to use a compressor only for flake jobs so maybe I don't even need 100l, have a tendency to go OTT.
Off topic a little but anyone ever try a dry flake gun?

I don't use it for bursts, i got the 1.2mm and it lays clear coats down great, it also acts more like a conventional gun which is good for nitro, sprays at 2 bar 3.6cfm 

I use a 0.8mm iwatta for bursts and the devilbiss is used for the rest inc goldtops

Haven't tried a dry flake gun but I'm itching to get some big sparkle flake stuff done

rexter

Nice, cheers. May well look at one with the smaller nozzle. I could definitely use something a little smaller for bursts. 
Some people seem to say dry flake is a good way to go for easy cleanup but I'm not convinced it would get the same result as the conventional way... may just give it a try and see.

WezV

I am also on a 24l, wouldn't want to be spraying all day with it but it's fine for my use.  I got one from SGS, thought it was very reasonable.

I have 4 cheap guns.   One very cheap one for primer, a bigger and better one for clear...


And 2 identical mini guns off Amazon which perform very well for the low price.  I use these for bursts and tints.  Just be aware you may need different connectors and get some PTFE tape in too


https://www.amazon.co.uk/BERGEN-Professional-Mini-Spray-AT524/dp/B01M72OCBD/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1544203602&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=mini+spraygun&dpPl=1&dpID=41Wzyt53YgL&ref=plSrch

WezV

Actually, I got a 50l one

WezV

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc50h-50-litre-high-flow-air-compressor?gclid=CjwKCAiA0ajgBRA4EiwA9gFORw7CWs_oJxqTSTU500XVhRJfsBsXfkbgoGQyWGPzXo_KCrGBXuSnqhoC1K0QAvD_BwE

GSPBASSES

WezV said:

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc50h-50-litre-high-flow-air-compressor?gclid=CjwKCAiA0ajgBRA4EiwA9gFORw7CWs_oJxqTSTU500XVhRJfsBsXfkbgoGQyWGPzXo_KCrGBXuSnqhoC1K0QAvD_BwE

That's the one I use.

randella

WezV said:

And 2 identical mini guns off Amazon which perform very well for the low price.  I use these for bursts and tints.  Just be aware you may need different connectors and get some PTFE tape in too

They're actually not bad.  I expected the worst but sprayed a passable nitrocellulose Candy-Apple Red with one using it for the primer, gold, tint, and clear.

Keep the airhole clear would be my advice.  You can ask me how I know this, and about the resulting mess to be cleared up

Jez6345789

Wow 
I love the knowledge and all the great info here got some thinking to do and thanks to @rexter ;
for mentioning the HLVP turbines they sound like they have a lot of potential for the occasional user, even if they are a bit more pricey. 

So thinking and drawing up a Christmas list. 

Again thanks

Aidanspaghetti

Wow! I was in work last night and only started looking into spray gear. Thinking of starting up my slef for a few projects (As nearly everything I buy is a relic body/neck).
Thanks for the Gen guys.... Gonna subscribe to this thread

Jez6345789

A quick question sure people here are doing more than I will. 

I understand the idea of a separate gun for Flakes. 
Reading between the lines people seem to have guns just for clear guns for colour. 
Is that just ease of use or that you do not have to be quiet so scrupulous in cleaning going between a colour and a clear. 

Thanks

rexter

Jez6345789 said:

A quick question sure people here are doing more than I will. 

I understand the idea of a separate gun for Flakes. 
Reading between the lines people seem to have guns just for clear guns for colour. 
Is that just ease of use or that you do not have to be quiet so scrupulous in cleaning going between a colour and a clear. 

Thanks

It's best to keep separate guns for your different types for both those reasons I would say.

For example, primer by its nature is super thick with a lot of solid in it - I thin my primer far less than I do clear coat or colours and so use a bigger nozzle (1.8mm) to shoot it. It's also gloopy and a bit of a pain to clean. So I keep one large siphon gun for primer only - still clean it well, but because only using it for this there's no risk of horrible clumps of white paint coming out on a clear coat on a guitar that's already got hours and hours of work into it.

Same for all other combos really. You can use one gun for solid colours and clear (i used to do this with another Fuji gun I have) but you just have to clean it really, really well. You should do this anyway if you want them to last of course    I would never spray a clear or colour through something that I've sprayed metallics with. I keep my 'best' spraygun for the metallics and nothing else.

You might also find that your clear goes on better with a different air cap/nozzle set than your colours do. You can switch out these parts on the same gun of course, but for ease it's better to have a couple. This is the real advantage of a traditional compressor over the turbines - you can pick up decent guns cheaply rather than at £300 a pop for the Fuji ones.

If you are interested in the turbines though, they are just so easy to use and get a consistent finish with, I think I'll always do the bulk of my finishing using them. You don't have to worry about moisture, oil, belts, maintenance, CFM. Just turn them on and spray.

 You can get a turbine gun for just less than £100 on ebay and they're decent, although siphon feed. You can get a converter to make them into gravity guns and a selection of aircaps from 0.8 - 2mm I think too.

Corvus

You have to have a separate gun for flakes as such but you do need a big enough 'setup', i.e. needle/nozzle/aircap to be able to physically pass the flake through.

edit - very small flake can work in a gravity gun, a trick is put a ball bearing ball in there and keep shaking between passes ... with heavy flake you need a suction gun - so that might decide the gun question by itself

I do have one bought for flake because it came up cheap but also use my others - flake varies a lot in size so one extra gun isn't going to cut it by itself. Though with some guns different setups are cheap to get.

Flake's relatively easy re gun clean-up, you see the flakes as you clean. With pearls it's far harder, a separate gun for pearls/metallic makes a lot of sense.

Should be fully stripping down & cleaning guns after every session, sometimes every colour change.

Re flake gun, my mate got a Flake Buster when they were a new thing. Also daft money. Flake still gets blown all over the shop. The flakes don't lay down that nicely, the advice was to blast with air.. guess you could pat down a guitar. At least now there's tons of cheap ones, based on grit blaster guns by the looks.

The Bergen guns are usually decent, I've been through a good lot of those, don't last forever but plenty cheap. The current cheapies I've got are Duren. Similar thing, not going to last, has a sweet spot in settings, dirt cheap. The SGS 24L comp is identical to the Aldi, it appears with a few brands on it. The pump's good and comp been reliable, survived a few yrs of not exactly being treated nicely by the other half...

With guns it can be worth keeping an eye out on forums & fleabay etc, like I've had two DeVilbiss's for a tenner that just needed a clean, a brand new JGA copy for a tenner that original parts fit onto, mate got a Sata for 30-something etc

One thing with comps, you can link them up if you get another later. A pair of 2hps gives say 12cfm, now your choice of gun is opened up (it's about the motor, not tank size). My two are paired up.

streethawk

Like rexter says, If you look into compressor spraying you’ll find a lot of potential drawbacks. 

Short of an expensive pro install for factory use, I’d be looking into the HVLP turbine route instead.

If you’re also going to be using the compressor for other garage related jobs, that’s a different matter.

Danielsguitars

I don't see hvlp compressor spraying a drawback, it's been fine since i started doing guitars, i did paint cars and bikes before so got used to them

The set up isn't huge either if you go second hand for some bits

Corvus

As above, I don't really see any comp drawbacks. Draining the moisture off is no bother, oil change every year or two, is dead easy. The versatility pays off and can be very cheap to get started off with - certainly no need for a pro install or anything like that. At the most you may need to run off 16A or 32A to cope with startup spike, certainly for 3hp, smaller ones are often happy off 13a. Hook up & go.

Danielsguitars

I'm on 13A sockets no problem, bloody hell my surface planer is 16A
I do have a water trap regulator which is much better than my last set up, also my new hose is fantastic, can't remember what make but it stays flexible in the very cold weather

I've never used over a 50ltr tank anyway