Singing lessons? Will it help? Advice or suggestions sought

thecolourbox

Hi all

I thought I might consider some singing lessons for Xmas as I'm being hounded for suggestions of what I want.

I was hoping the collective wisdom here might be able to advise on whether that might be a good idea?

I've a very average singing ability, never had any instructions before. I think practise improves my breathing and therefore phrasing, so my agility improves. What I would hope to improve or learn is some variety - my voice is a bit boring and however I try I can't seem to add interest, it just sounds the same monotone and I can't seem to inject the variety.

Would lessons be able to help me with this?

Also, the singing teachers I've been recommended before were more classical or musical theatre, appreciate I could learn from them still but is somebody that specialises in Lloyd Webber going to help me with kind of indie rock type stuff.

Here's some examples of where I'm at:

Ps, any recommendations for teachers in Birmingham would be great

Thanks all

WiresDreamDisasters

In my opinion you do not have average singing ability. You're at the very least above average. I think you're good. If you've not had lessons before, then I can only assume that natural talent is a major part of your abilities. Based on the Cornell tune, you've got this breathy tone that sounds effortless. But be careful of it, because breathiness can encourage laziness and poor support.

What I'm not hearing much of is high note belting. You say you think your voice is boring, so maybe there are things you want to achieve but you're not focusing on them? I'm not sure. It's not clear from what you've said.

Lessons would be useful for you, because they're useful for anyone. But you might find that you're ahead of where beginner lessons would start.

What sort of techniques do you want to learn?

pmbomb

average???!!!

Bridgehouse

Definitely not average. And definitely would benefit from lessons.

Back in my youth I was trained to sing in a semi-pro choir - the lessons I got from that were actually pretty brutal, and I don’t suggest you do the same. But without seeing you singing, and going by ear alone, I think a lot could be done to bring out the expression and dynamics in your voice by working on posture and air delivery. Just singing “through your forehead” and projecting that way will bring a lot out.

As it stands you’ve got the making of an excellent voice with a bit of tweaking and practise

TheMarlin

If, like me, you have a voice that’s doesnt hold tune, wobbles about, and has significant gaps tonal delivery, can this be inpiroved to basic performance levels?, or will concentrating  efforts elsewhere (playing guitar properly) reap better rewards? 

oddly, right now I have ‘man flu’, am on the edge of loosing my voice, and have gone from ‘Griff Reece Jones’ to ‘Barry White’ and in this brief period before complete voice loss, hold tone and tune extremely well. I’d go as far as to say I sound musical! 

Damn shame!

Bridgehouse

TheMarlin said:

If, like me, you have a voice that’s doesnt hold tune, wobbles about, and has significant gaps tonal delivery, can this be inpiroved to basic performance levels?, or will concentrating  efforts elsewhere (playing guitar properly) reap better rewards? 

oddly, right now I have ‘man flu’, am on the edge of loosing my voice, and have gone from ‘Griff Reece Jones’ to ‘Barry White’ and in this brief period before complete voice loss, hold tone and tune extremely well. I’d go as far as to say I sound musical! 

Damn shame!

Yes, it can be improved - an awful lot more than you probably realise. Like any instrument it requires practise, warm up, getting to understand its capabilities, and time spent at the grindstone. 

Even a small amount of properly advised practise can make a substantial difference

Legionreturns

Paging @thomasross20 , who has some good knowledge on this subject 

monquixote

I found singing lessons massively helpful.

My teacher was a rock specialist but you are right that most tend to be more showtunes and ballads focussed.

WiresDreamDisasters

TheMarlin said:

If, like me, you have a voice that’s doesnt hold tune, wobbles about, and has significant gaps tonal delivery, can this be inpiroved to basic performance levels?

Yes. Very easily.

thecolourbox

Thanks all for the kind encouragement. I shall try to Google around some rock or modern (non-showtune) teachers maybe but with some thinking and consideration to do myself as well.

WiresDreamDisasters said:

What I'm not hearing much of is high note belting. You say you think your voice is boring, so maybe there are things you want to achieve but you're not focusing on them? I'm not sure. It's not clear from what you've said.

Lessons would be useful for you, because they're useful for anyone. But you might find that you're ahead of where beginner lessons would start.

What sort of techniques do you want to learn?

Cheers Drew, I do need to consider what I might like to aim at but it's a bit difficult as the kind of music and singing I like does not quite match with what types of music my voice fits - I think therein lies the problem really, as I like the idea of singing like the music o enjoy so I will always be disappointed when I cannot as it's like being a chicken and wanting to taste like beef. 

Do I perhaps need to find two or three examples of songs I think are achievable but enable me to improve?

I'm not sure what high note belting is really but I'm sure I can't do it at present as the high notes (E above middle C up to A) I can only reach by doing a certain technique. 

Ps, not so much based on natural ability as such, I did classical piano for a long time which requires a musical ear for playing and for the musicianship tests you have to do in piano exams. Any musical ability I have other than piano is played through my ear, not through my voice/guitar/whatever

Bridgehouse said:

Back in my youth I was trained to sing in a semi-pro choir - the lessons I got from that were actually pretty brutal, and I don’t suggest you do the same. But without seeing you singing, and going by ear alone, I think a lot could be done to bring out the expression and dynamics in your voice by working on posture and air delivery. Just singing “through your forehead” and projecting that way will bring a lot out.

As it stands you’ve got the making of an excellent voice with a bit of tweaking and practise

I was in chamber choir at college (the other tenor could sing, but could not read music so that was the only reason I was in!) so can still do a passable choir voice, but that was a very different type of singing! That said we did always stand up to sing and project etc so there are lessons to learn from it certainly.

The Cornell song was sang whilst playing the piano so a bit of a weird position, Wild Fire (edit no it's not, that's the other version of it I did, this one was done sat at the kitchen table) If were double tracked one side sat down and the other stood up. Only the last one (fretboard challenge one) was sang stood up which I think is reflected in the better balance in the higher notes

Jonathanthomas83

I bought singing lessons on Udemy and it's already helped stabilise and get my old voice back. Just the warm ups he suggests are good enough for that, which he does for free ..



Udemy has a sale on at the moment, his course is here...

https://www.udemy.com/share/1000QoBUMaeVdaQH4=/

thecolourbox

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I bought singing lessons on Udemy and it's already helped stabilise and get my old voice back. Just the warm ups he suggests are good enough for that, which he does for free ..



Udemy has a sale on at the moment, his course is here...

https://www.udemy.com/share/1000QoBUMaeVdaQH4=/

Thanks for that I shall have a go at this later the neighbours will not know what has hit them

WiresDreamDisasters

@thecolourbox look into resonance, or vocal placement if you like. It helps shape the tonality of your voice - like... how does Billy Corgan go from a whiny bratty baby like tone, to a smooth falsetto, to a growl? He uses vocal placement. It's called different things - pharyngeal resonance, singing in the mask, twang, etc.

This is one of the ways to get interesting high belts.



Then you can look into vocal fry, which will help you develop a more "rock" tone. If that's what you're looking for. It depends what you're after really. Feel free to post some songs that you want to head in the direction of, and I'll try and post some advice. I'm not a vocal coach, but I've taken enough lessons to know some stuff.

I have similar issues btw - I have a set of tones that I like, but sometimes I think sound quite plain. I don't have the rock belting thing down yet, it eludes me a fair bit.

In recordings I tend to do a fair bit of harmony, just to kind of add the extra interest. For example at 1:54 in our latest single:
https://bridgedisaster.co.uk/album/truth-escapes

I've got at least 5 or 6 layers there.

thomasross20

Thanks @Legionreturns !

I think you should just bite the bullet and get lessons. It can only help. 

I've done the Roger Love book and I'm doing the Ken Tamplin course and there's free "Voice Lessons to the world" which are good. 

I think it's just a matter of time invested and honed practise and the teacher will help the honing part. Same for anything. 

I think I've got vowel mods down now and I've always had a large range but I struggle to get a good vocal distortion despite being able to compress (use little air) well. I remember Drew was doing a lot of singing, right enough -  how's that going? 

thecolourbox

Thanks all for the input. By way of an update, my Better Half excitedly told me yesterday that she has bought me a gift now so she doesn't "have to bother waiting for you to book those lessons you wanted", so if I do this I'll have to fund it myself, which is just great so might do the Youtube/Udemy thing to start with at least and see from there whether I still feel the need to engage with an actual human being or whether that's enough. I can be a little difficult to get on with when it comes to music, so it may be of benefit to me and the prospective teacher to avoid human interaction!

 Drew, I’ll have a listen/watch of the stuff you posted, thanks. Most of the music I like doesn’t really go for harmony, though that’s probably because they have voices that don’t need or suit it I guess, so could give that a go. I’ve written it before back when I used to do a few plays etc but find it tends to sound cheesy when I do it.

 Some examples of things I feel might be achievable, that I like and I know there are backing tracks for, are as follows:

 

Mojo Pin - Jeff Buckley

The high ahhhh-ing would be nice to be able to do with control, should be just about within my range though the high note at the end of each verse is pushing it at present for it to sound nice. Would like to keep it in the same key though to enable me playing along at some point. The switch from verse style (a bit talky, more reserved) to the chorus style (more powerful and direct) would be great to achieve.

 Heroes - Bowie

I struggle to control lowest notes (breathing tekkers?) and don't know how to do a loud "breaking up" type thing (to use a guitar term), so the two contrasting styles in this one would be useful to achieve I think.

Want to also do a faster one, as I'm not very good at spitting words out quickly and sounding good. Maybe Juicebox by the Strokes as it has a lower bit then a more shouty chorus. But will keep thinking in case there are any good White Stripes or Jack White songs I could suggest instead as that’s mostly what I listen to.

 I've no hope of joining any bands or whatever, not even as a dep as my tastes are very conducive to it, not to mention I’m quite difficult to organise. So this is purely for my own development and for recording, and to give me something to do sat at my piano rather than trying in vain to get the perfect drive rhythm tone on guitar.

Jonathanthomas83

I'm in the same boat as you, I don't want the human contact, it always felt so awkward for me in guitar and piano lessons. Udemy is great and has really helped me. I also want as cheap a solution as possible, so it helps in that regard too!

thecolourbox

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I'm in the same boat as you, I don't want the human contact, it always felt so awkward for me in guitar and piano lessons. Udemy is great and has really helped me. I also want as cheap a solution as possible, so it helps in that regard too!

It's not so much that I feel conscious about singing in front of a teacher, I had weekly piano lessons for 12 years so I'm used to that. Having said that, I've only had two guitar lessons, the second of which was enough for me to give up when I'd explained by way of pre-lesson prep I like playing indie rock, I'd like to learn some technique like players x, y & z, no classic rock please, only for the teacher to turn up with a tab for Stairway to Heaven. The acoustic bit as well, when I was there for electric lessons!

It's more that I'm quite particular with my tastes and fairly closed minded about it, but I lack the assertiveness to go with it so I just end up doing what everybody else wants even though I dislike it. Story of my life though I guess not just in musical scenarios!

TheBlueWolf

You sound way above average dude

Singing lessons helped me a lot with improving my voice so it's worth a punt

richylee

I've had a friend have lessons with a teacher called Amy Wyatt in Birmingham said great things. Here's her Facebook link  https://www.facebook.com/AmyWyattSessionSinger/

thecolourbox

richylee said:

I've had a friend have lessons with a teacher called Amy Wyatt in Birmingham said great things. Here's her Facebook link  https://www.facebook.com/AmyWyattSessionSinger/

It truly is a small world, @richylee , as I'm 99% certain that is who recorded me at Mushroom studios in Birmingham when I was trying to record the small collection of songs I did this year

richylee

Yes mate that would be her, singer of my band said she's really helped him, I too was thinking of having lessons with her