I have already brought this up on another thread but wanted to use a simpler progression.
I'm wanting to know if the correct method for the nashville number system to always think of the major key being I chord, despite if its a modal track etc.
Eg
Em G D A - Im - bIII - bVII - IV OR IIm - IV - I - V
Cmaj7 /// Gmaj7 /// Cmaj7 /// Am7 / Gmaj7 / I V I VI V OR IV - I - IV - II V
My personal though on this would to look and relate everything to the major key
Em G D A is in the key of Em starts on the IIm so I'm in E Dorian
Cmaj7 Gmaj7 Cmaj7 Am7 Gmaj7 starts on the IV and sound like Cmaj7 and is a lydian progression although by not having the D major present doesn't warrant hanging on that sharp 4!
Just wanted to know your thoughts?
Comments
The second one - edit - just read your post properly. The G7 is a G maj7, so also spot on.
But like much of this stuff you could also just describe the second one as though it’s in C, and just note that the G chord has a maj7 whenever it occurs (Vmaj7).
I personally prefer the home note being the I chord. The Nashville system is ultra-confusing, counter-productive and unnecessary, I hate it!
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
The 1 chord just IS the tonic in my book, whether major, minor or modal. And the V is the dominant. I can’t think in any other way - the position and role of the chord is just what the roman numerals MEAN.
So if I want to play in D Dorian, my chords are i ii bIII IV V (I’ve chosen to majorise the dominant chord in this example), bvi(dim), bVII, i.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
For example, take D Dorian. I'm torn between notating it with no sharps or flats and then writing Dorian against the key signature. Or notating it with a key signature with one flat to indicate a D minor tonality, then including accidentals to covert the Bb to a B natural.
If anyone were to call the key for 'I Wish', I'm sure they'd call it in terms of the key for its home note minor key, even though it's essentially Dorian.
But like you say, accidentals is probably better (after determining major or minor of course - not suggesting A minor should have 3 sharps in the key sig!)) - it makes one notice the mode.
It also reinforces that there are 3 major modes and 3 minor modes.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
They would, and to go one further, I don’t think we even need to make the distinction between home note minor key and it being Dorian, which is a minor mode (i know you know that!); so I’d say that its home note IS D#, and it’s in D# Dorian. And I’d personally mark it 6 sharps in the key sig and add the sharp for B# as an accidental wherever it occurs. (Or mark the key sig as Eb and naturalise the C if you prefer)
(Rather than saying it’s in Bb minor and confuse the hell out of everyone!)
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
When notating modal music, is the best approach to use a key signature which reflects the parent scale? A signature without sharps or flats would therefore be appropriate for pieces in F lydian, G mixolydian, E phrygian etc?
I subscribe to the ‘no’ school. I prefer to key-sig it to the parent major or minor, and add modal colour through accidentals.
C Major: 0 sharps or flats.
D Dorian: 1 flat (Bb), and naturalise it as an accidental.
E Phrygian: 1 sharp (F#), and naturalise it as an accidental.
F Lydian: 1 flat (Bb), and naturalise it as an accidental.
G Mixo: 1 sharp (F#), and naturalise it as an accidental.
A Aeolian: 0 sharps or flats.
B Locrian: chances are this is really in C major or G Mixolydian, but if not, I’d signature it as though it were B minor (2 sharps), and naturalise them both as accidentals.
And if C were the key-note, it’d be:
C Major: 0 sharps or flats.
C Dorian: 3 flats, and naturalise the Ab.
C Phrygian: 3 flats, and flatten the D to Db.
C Lydian: 0 sharps or flats, and sharpen the F to F#.
C Mixo: 0 sharps or flats, and flatten the B to Bb.
C Aeolian: 3 flats.
C Locrian: 3 flats, and also flatten the D to Db and the G to Gb.
The other way is perfectly possible too but look how counter-intuitive it is:
C Major: 0 sharps or flats, like A minor.
C Dorian: 2 flats, like Bb major or G minor.
C Phrygian: 4 flats, like Ab major or F minor.
C Lydian: 1 sharp, like G major or E minor.
C Mixo: 1 flat, like F major or D minor.
C Aeolian: 3 flats, like Eb major.
C Locrian: 5 flats, like Db major or Bb minor.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
I agree with @viz . But I can see the argument for the other way to reduce the number of accidentals.
For charts I generate, I like to write the mode against the key if it's not a straight major (Ionian) or its relative minor.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
So would a flamenco/Spanish sounding piece in E, be notated as essentially E major (Phrygian dominant) or essentially E minor (Phrygian)?
There's an interesting parallel with the harmonic minor scale and the natural minor, where the 'Phrygians' respectively could be regarded as the 5th mode of those scales. And often when I'm composing or improvising (e.g. Smooth by Santana) I'll use both the b7 or the natural 7. So in the key of Am we come back to the use of G and G# as mentioned earlier in the context of the relative 'Phrygians'.
Interesting. I like your thinking. Here’s my view:
Note Relative effect on minor tonality
3rd 50%
6th 25%
7th 15%
2nd 10%
So on the basis of those made-up numbers:
Phrygian: 100% minor
Aeolian: 90% minor
Dorian: only 60% minor
even Mixolydian: 15% minor
Phrygian dominant (on the tonic) scores 50%, so on the fence.
Mixolydian b6 (on the tonic) swings to 60% MAJOR, which sounds right to me. Rachmaninov wrote a lot of music in Mixo b6 and it has a major feel (just).
Harmonic and melodic minor (when used on the tonic) score 75% and 50% minor respectively.
Then we have other hybrids: harmonic major scores 25% minor; neapolitan major scores 60% minor (even though it’s called major this feels right to me); the beautifully palindromic snake-charmer scale (1312131) scores 35% minor.
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As for the Phryg Dom and Mixo b6 in their typical V positions (in classical music) they’re as per Aeolian, because they only exist fleetingly to cadence to the minor tonic. Maybe they score half points for their raised notes, so instead of 90% minor they get 83.5% and 78.5% respectively.
Viz: successfully squashing art with pseudo-science since 1990.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Been thinking about this all day lol. Here are the relative weightings, from the perspective of the impact they have on major tonality, IMO of course!
Note Relative effect on major tonality
2nd: 10%
3rd: 50%
6th: 25%
7th: 15%
And here are the 16 scales, from most major to most minor:
MMMM: Ionian. 100% major
mMMM: Ionian b2: 90% major
MMMm: Mixolydian: 85% major
MMmM: Harmonic major: 75% major
mMMm: Mixolydian b2: 75% major
mMmM: Snake Charmer: 65% major
MMmm: Mixolydian b6: 60% major
MmMM: Melodic minor ascending: 50% major
mMmm: Phyrgian Dominant: 50%
mmMM: Neapolitan major: 40% major
MmMm: Dorian: 35% major
MmmM: Harmonic minor: 25% major
mmMm: Dorian b2: 25% major
mmmM: Neapolitan minor: 15% major
Mmmm: Aeolian: 10% major
mmmm: Phrygian: 0% major
(Of course, Lydian with its aug4 scores 110%, and Lydian Augmented with its aug4 and aug 5 gets 120%. Similarly, Locrian gets -10% and Super Locrian gets -20% )
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/30240-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-nashville-number-system
It does seem that if you are in a minor or major key modal or not the I is always the I of the related major key. Which kinda makes sense as you will always be thinking about the key and the mode. Rather than saying we are Em Dorian, It’s easier to say D Major.
First chord Em which we call chord II which is the home sound.