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Guitar tone woods - do you worry about sustainability / impact on wildlife?

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KeikoKeiko Frets: 962
Just read this, pretty interesting, something that doesn't seem to be discussed much by musicians, but may be more of an issue in future years. Seems a lot of wood that gets imported from overseas is actually from illegal sources and from protected areas. We all want great tone, but at what cost to the planet?


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Comments

  • gordijigordiji Frets: 782
    Yes, i'm aware of the 5 guitars i have & general western lifestyle in terms of carbon footprint, sustainability of resources, pollution etc. I accept i'm part of the problem.
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  • NerineNerine Frets: 1971
    In answer to the thread title, honestly... No. 
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8592
    Yes. I’ve been worried about it for decades.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • JDEJDE Frets: 1092
    I would be more concerned with how much deforestation is caused by the palm oil industry. Or the paper industry. Or the building industry. Even if the materials in major consumer goods are conscientiously sourced (which I doubt), think about the labour used. Or the chemicals and other shit spewed into the air. How much energy (sustainable or otherwise) do you think, for example, a refrigerator manufacturer uses per day? Only a handful of builders use exotic woods, which should make them easy to find and easy to punish if they break the rules, but how much damage do you think Yamaha make just running a production line on the scale they do? And I’m not picking on Yammy, it’s the nature of modern mass production.

    I like to live as conscientiously, as mindfully and sustainably as i can, but save my fretting about guitars for my red hot riffs. 
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  • rossirossi Frets: 1699
    I think guitars using expensive woods are frankly a drop in the ocean compared to furniture , hotel ,liners and yacht fittings and the like .Most guitars are made form fairly cheap old shit  thats sustainable and even the pricey ones use tiny amounts of so called tone wood but probably just comfortingly expensive rare stuff .The Western life style is now the worlds life style either  as a reality or as an aspiration .We are doomed, suckers ,so we may as well go down playing  .The environment is being fucked up  by  mankind in general not guitarists .We just fuck up brains and ears .
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  • BrizeBrize Frets: 5619
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  • rossi said:
    I think guitars using expensive woods are frankly a drop in the ocean compared to furniture , hotel ,liners and yacht fittings and the like .Most guitars are made form fairly cheap old shit  thats sustainable and even the pricey ones use tiny amounts of so called tone wood but probably just comfortingly expensive rare stuff .The Western life style is now the worlds life style either  as a reality or as an aspiration .We are doomed, suckers ,so we may as well go down playing  .The environment is being fucked up  by  mankind in general not guitarists .We just fuck up brains and ears .
    I couldn't help thinking of Echopark guitars when I read this lols.
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  • Keiko said:
    We all want great tone, but at what cost to the planet? 
    Tone is all in the fingers, or possibly the plectrum, or pickups, or pedals, or amp. No reason to use unsustainable woods.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    I should get round to making my resin injected pine guitar to see what it's like

    Totally sustainable, cheap to make and the whole guitar inc fretboard is made from it, they can vary the density and weight, this concept really interests me but will probably be a bloody hard sell for me
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • Buy second hand. All the pleasure/none of the guilt. Plenty out there. 
    'Vot eva happened to the Transylvanian Tvist?'
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  • KalimnaKalimna Frets: 1534
    I should get round to making my resin injected pine guitar to see what it's like

    Totally sustainable, cheap to make and the whole guitar inc fretboard is made from it, they can vary the density and weight, this concept really interests me but will probably be a bloody hard sell for me
    Out of interest, do you know what the environmental impact would be from the production of the resin side of things? I’m sure it would be a drop in the ocean too, but resins aren’t known for their ‘niceness’ as chemical products, or are they? 
    Also, do you know how the resin infused pine would machine? Would it require specialist router cutters or saw blades for instance, like Corian does? In other words, could you act as a conduit to sell body/neck blanks to hobby builders?
    I think it’s a fantastic idea, particularly when different colours could be infused, and I’d hope there is a market for both the raw material and end product.
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  • With the CITES/Rosewood import/export issue, I'd be open to any dark wood alternative materials for necks. I think it's good that environmental issues are taken into consideration. I'd also consider using recycled woods etc too.
    I've made a decision to try and not eat foods with palm oil, for environmental reasons alone, though buying a guitar isn't something you'd be doing every day :) 
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    tFB Trader

    Yeah I also think its something we should be thinking about..  If you haven't watched it, check the Bob Taylor video out.. Its quite shocking.

    Have you guys heard of Rocklite?  They do two fretboard substitutes which actually seem really good.. Ebano and Sundari  which is an Ebony and Rosewood substitute made from sustainable hardwoods and heat treated I think.

    https://www.rocklite.co.uk/

    Ive heard really good reports on this stuff.. Seems like a great alternative to me. I think some acoustics have been made from it too.


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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11414
    The whole thing is quite complex.  There is no reason that wood can't be plantation grown.  Bob Taylor is doing it, and I'm pretty sure that there are sources of Indian Rosewood that are plantation grown.

    Even Brazilian Rosewood could be plantation grown, but there is no incentive to at the moment, because it can't be sold legally.

    The problem at the moment is that a lot of countries are chopping down forests to feed their populations, and for things that will bring cash like palm oil.  A lot of the time, they are just burning the forests down to make space - which is a complete waste.

    With plants, even Brazilian Rosewood, I'm not sure that the CITES banning approach is the best.  I think encouraging sustainable trade would be better.  If it can be traded legally, then there is an incentive to plant more as it's a valuable resource.  The big problem at the moment is the corruption in places like Madagascar, parts of South America, and some countries in the Pacific.  If the authorities there got a grip on the logging at source then sustainable trade would be possible.

    Having said that, you can make very good guitars from non-traditional materials.  I've got a Martin OOOX1AE with HPL (High pressure laminate) back and sides, the neck made from Stratobond (made with wood fibres and resin), and something like Richlite for the fingerboard.  It's not as good as my HD28V, but the difference isn't as much as you would think it might be.  It sounded better than guitars that were twice the price when I tried it in the shop.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    tFB Trader
    Kalimna said:
    I should get round to making my resin injected pine guitar to see what it's like

    Totally sustainable, cheap to make and the whole guitar inc fretboard is made from it, they can vary the density and weight, this concept really interests me but will probably be a bloody hard sell for me
    Out of interest, do you know what the environmental impact would be from the production of the resin side of things? I’m sure it would be a drop in the ocean too, but resins aren’t known for their ‘niceness’ as chemical products, or are they? 
    Also, do you know how the resin infused pine would machine? Would it require specialist router cutters or saw blades for instance, like Corian does? In other words, could you act as a conduit to sell body/neck blanks to hobby builders?
    I think it’s a fantastic idea, particularly when different colours could be infused, and I’d hope there is a market for both the raw material and end product.
    I'm glad you like the idea because at some point good wood will become a problem for me and I'm getting fed up looking for it

    I have 2 sample blank sets to try and I'm working with the guy that supplies it, it's vastly different from what we imagine pine is like, the stuff for fretboards is rock hard and rings like rosewood, no idea how it'll work yet and as soon as i get time I'll get cracking and post a thread up

    Even rain water is harvested to produce the resin so it's very eco friendly imo or as much as possible, the trees are grown knot free and sustainable, the only problem might be widths for 1 piece bodys but I've seen them joined and it's so good you don't really notice it

    If the guitar works out good I'll be looking at supplying blanks and machined bodys necks and boards etc but that's a long way off yet

    My biggest problem will be convincing others although i plan to do back to back tests with a mahogany equivalent to dismiss the nay sayers 
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • JDEJDE Frets: 1092
    Creed_Clicks though buying a guitar isn't something you'd be doing every day :) 
    Cc: @HarrySeven ;
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  • JDE said:
    Creed_Clicks though buying a guitar isn't something you'd be doing every day :) 
    Cc: @HarrySeven ;
    Indeed.

    However, I very, very rarely purchase new guitars, so my (contemporary) -ve impact upon woodland is minimal. ;)


    HarrySeven - Intangible Asset Appraiser & Wrecker of Civilisation. Searching for weird guitars - so you don't have to.
    Forum feedback thread.    |     G&B interview #1 & #2   |  https://www.instagram.com/_harry_seven_/ 

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  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7746
    Well, good guitar companies will use sustainable resources.  Some even use old reclaimed wood. 

    What are the alternatives?

    well, metals use a butt load of energ to produce, plus all the pollution from smelting and refining, plus tremendous loss of habitat from large scale mining. 

    Carbon Fibre uses 14 times more energ than steel to produce, plus produces huge amounts of greenhouse gasses. 

    Trees are almost certainly the greenest option. Pun intended. 
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  • Isn't there a French guy making guitars out of recycled metals? Trussart? No idea what they sound like plugged in though.
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