Volume levels for high gain - dealing with going from one extreme to the other

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So I have a tune where I go from saturated chord work at the beginning of a chord progression and by the end it evolves into a chuggy, palm muted solo-ey thingy.

Problem is, I have to set the VU meter to have a low volume on the open chord work, say -6/7, because by the time the chuggy stuff comes up, the VU peaks almost over 0 and into the red. The bass transients are different, I guess. There's a definite thump to the palm muted stuff that isn't there in the open chords. I love that, but it comes with its problems.

Question is, how do you tackle this? Should I tackle it? Will something like an compressor level things out? (It doesn't help much, from what I've tried, using my limited knowledge of how to set one up).

Any ideas? Should I worry about things like this?

Ideally I'd like to raise the volume of the open chords, tbh.
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Comments

  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    edited May 2019
    you could track the parts separately and adjust the gain accordingly. If you insist on doing it all on one take and want more even volume, then you'll want a compressor. my Rothwell Love Squeeze works great for even-ing out the volumes of different parts, i.e. strummed and picked. Any decent compressor will do. What compressor are you using and how are you setting it?

    One more thing, if you want the compressor to even out the volume of your guitar parts, make sure you keep it last in the line of effects. 
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    You don’t say what DaW you are using, but let’s assume you can cut and paste the louder parts onto a separate track and treat them differently, it sounds like both parts need some compression and maybe limiting for different reasons, EQ may also help.

    Maybe try a light limiter on the Main bus also as experiment.


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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    The way to do it is to put clean parts on separate tracks to the distorted parts.

    Before non-linear editing was a thing you'd just ride faders on the console between the quiet and and the loud parts, but that isn't necessary now.

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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    I note you used the word evolves there...is it a gradual transition from one type of part to the other?

    In which case cutting into sections might not work unless there are natural places where each processing change could occur.

    If that's the case you could use some automation to bring in processing to tame the low end as the part progresses, maybe a low cut. might also be worth looking at dynamic EQ or multiband compression if all you need to do is tame the low end on the chug riffs while leaving the rest of the signal relatively untouched. 
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273


    Ideally I'd like to raise the volume of the open chords, tbh.
    Looking a just this line, you could also just stick an extra layer under that part of the riff to emphasise those bits. you can then control the amount of emphasis with a single fader
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  • I note you used the word evolves there...is it a gradual transition from one type of part to the other?

    In which case cutting into sections might not work unless there are natural places where each processing change could occur.

    If that's the case you could use some automation to bring in processing to tame the low end as the part progresses, maybe a low cut. might also be worth looking at dynamic EQ or multiband compression if all you need to do is tame the low end on the chug riffs while leaving the rest of the signal relatively untouched. 
    This was my thoughts exactly...you're right, it's basically 4 or 5 chords in fairly quick succession with no real break to cut across tracks.

    That's very helpful. Thanks for your input and thanks all for your advice!
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    Here's my thought process, fwiw.

    1; is the actual sound happening in the room what works best for the song? ie if going to palm mutes = much louder sound, is that definitely what you want? If so, move on to 2. If it's actually not what you want, change the settings, or the mic technique, or the guitar you're using, to make the part more coherent over the course of the song. Because if it's turning into a problem on record and it's *not* what you want it to eventually sound like, it strikes me that it's an easy problem to resolve at source.

    2; if the change in volume is a technical problem in terms of peaking, that's easy to resolve by turning the mic's input gain down. If it's an artistic challenge in that it doesn't fit the song, you can either go back to 1; and try to change the source, or you can deal with it in mixing. Simple volume automation is the most powerful tool you have, I think. Beyond that any technique listed above is valid, from compression to MB compression to EQing out low end resonances in the palm mutes to splitting the performance into multiple tracks and processing them accordingly. Once it's a mix decision I think you take whatever route to a solution feels most natural to you, and that's not something someone else can decide really.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    I note you used the word evolves there...is it a gradual transition from one type of part to the other?

    In which case cutting into sections might not work unless there are natural places where each processing change could occur.

    If that's the case you could use some automation to bring in processing to tame the low end as the part progresses, maybe a low cut. might also be worth looking at dynamic EQ or multiband compression if all you need to do is tame the low end on the chug riffs while leaving the rest of the signal relatively untouched. 
    This was my thoughts exactly...you're right, it's basically 4 or 5 chords in fairly quick succession with no real break to cut across tracks.

    That's very helpful. Thanks for your input and thanks all for your advice!
    So its a few chords that are within the whole riff? For that what I tend to do i have a single track in the centre that plays just the chords you want to emphasise and not the palm mutes, usually with a touch more gain so it brings out each note a little more cleanly then I just mix it in until it sounds right. I'd typically have 2 tracks each side of the full part including the palm mutes. 

    that way you can totally bypass any fiddly automation or processing.
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