Orange Dual Terror mods

mark_jwedge

I have seen a few things on the internet about upgrading the transformer and how that can make a big difference to the feel and sound. I haven't got any technical details but just wondered if anyone had any experiences of this or other mods they have done/would recommend for the dual terror?

ICBM

I think any transformer upgrade is largely a waste of time and money unless the original is seriously poor or under-spec for the job… which the original isn't. I know certain transformer manufacturers will tell you otherwise though.

I also know a lot of people who have done it will tell you it makes a big difference - but so will a lot of people who put expensive tone caps in their guitars… and they don't.

What don't you like about the sound? In what direction do you want to change it?

Personally I think the best mod for one is to sell it and buy a Rocker 30, but that's possibly not what you want to hear .

mark_jwedge

Well there have been a few issues with it since I got it. The fat channel is noticeably quitter and cleaner than the tiny terror channel when both channels are set the same plus the sound has this very spongy loose feel to it and to my ears is quite fizzy, even with the pre amp gain lowered and the volumes high. Obviously its worse the other way round, but even at higher volumes the fizz makes any gain setting over 1 o'clock pretty unusable. Seems to lack punch and dynamics. I sent it back to the shop and they diagnosed some faulty poweramp valves and changed them but that didn't seem to do the trick. Contacted orange and they just said to replace the preamp valves. Gonna have a local tech look at it, but trying to find a schematic for him and in looking for that came across talk of the transformer change.

@ICBM the thought of selling and getting a rocker 30 has crossed my mind several times, it just the DT is so portable as a grab and go for rehersal and back up for gigs

ICBM

mark_jwedge said:

Well there have been a few issues with it since I got it. The fat channel is noticeably quitter and cleaner than the tiny terror channel when both channels are set the same plus the sound has this very spongy loose feel to it and to my ears is quite fizzy, even with the pre amp gain lowered and the volumes high. Obviously its worse the other way round, but even at higher volumes the fizz makes any gain setting over 1 o'clock pretty unusable. Seems to lack punch and dynamics. I sent it back to the shop and they diagnosed some faulty poweramp valves and changed them but that didn't seem to do the trick. Contacted orange and they just said to replace the preamp valves. Gonna have a local tech look at it, but trying to find a schematic for him and in looking for that came across talk of the transformer change.

That's basically what they sound like… overly compressed and squashed, an odd combination of harsh and muddy at the same time. (In my opinion.) I've played through a couple when doing revalves etc and I find it hard to get any tone I like out of them. It sounds like it's bad enough for you that just tweaking it a bit isn't going to fix it - and without drastically ripping it apart and redesigning it, tweaking it a bit is as far as you'll get - the problem is the circuit, not the components. I don't actually like any of the EL84 Oranges to be honest.

jpfamps

I concur with ICBM regarding "upgrading" the transformers on the Tiny/Dual Terror; the stock transformers are very good and well constructed.

Mercury Magnetics make a set of "upgrade" transformers, however these increase the HT voltage and the primary loading. I think this was done so that the amp will definitely sound different after the transformer swap, and will be louder which generally equates to being better.

From speaking to a UK transformer manufacturer who we gave some MM transformers to for inspection, and the owner of a Seattle-based amp manufacturer as well as my own experiences, I'm yet to be convinced that the build quality of MM transformers justifies their price.

jpfamps

ICBM said:

mark_jwedge said:

Well there have been a few issues with it since I got it. The fat channel is noticeably quitter and cleaner than the tiny terror channel when both channels are set the same plus the sound has this very spongy loose feel to it and to my ears is quite fizzy, even with the pre amp gain lowered and the volumes high. Obviously its worse the other way round, but even at higher volumes the fizz makes any gain setting over 1 o'clock pretty unusable. Seems to lack punch and dynamics. I sent it back to the shop and they diagnosed some faulty poweramp valves and changed them but that didn't seem to do the trick. Contacted orange and they just said to replace the preamp valves. Gonna have a local tech look at it, but trying to find a schematic for him and in looking for that came across talk of the transformer change.

That's basically what they sound like… overly compressed and squashed, an odd combination of harsh and muddy at the same time. (In my opinion.) I've played through a couple when doing revalves etc and I find it hard to get any tone I like out of them. It sounds like it's bad enough for you that just tweaking it a bit isn't going to fix it - and without drastically ripping it apart and redesigning it, tweaking it a bit is as far as you'll get - the problem is the circuit, not the components. I don't actually like any of the EL84 Oranges to be honest.

I liked the AD15, and Tiny Terror, although I can't imagine I'd use one live.

I'm not generally a fan of EL84 amps; from a design point of view I think that it's an easy valve to get a particular characteristic sound from, but I don't think many amp manufacturers manage to get a great sound from them.

samzadgan

jpfamps said:

ICBM said:

mark_jwedge said:

Well there have been a few issues with it since I got it. The fat channel is noticeably quitter and cleaner than the tiny terror channel when both channels are set the same plus the sound has this very spongy loose feel to it and to my ears is quite fizzy, even with the pre amp gain lowered and the volumes high. Obviously its worse the other way round, but even at higher volumes the fizz makes any gain setting over 1 o'clock pretty unusable. Seems to lack punch and dynamics. I sent it back to the shop and they diagnosed some faulty poweramp valves and changed them but that didn't seem to do the trick. Contacted orange and they just said to replace the preamp valves. Gonna have a local tech look at it, but trying to find a schematic for him and in looking for that came across talk of the transformer change.

That's basically what they sound like… overly compressed and squashed, an odd combination of harsh and muddy at the same time. (In my opinion.) I've played through a couple when doing revalves etc and I find it hard to get any tone I like out of them. It sounds like it's bad enough for you that just tweaking it a bit isn't going to fix it - and without drastically ripping it apart and redesigning it, tweaking it a bit is as far as you'll get - the problem is the circuit, not the components. I don't actually like any of the EL84 Oranges to be honest.

I liked the AD15, and Tiny Terror, although I can't imagine I'd use one live.

I'm not generally a fan of EL84 amps; from a design point of view I think that it's an easy valve to get a particular characteristic sound from, but I don't think many amp manufacturers manage to get a great sound from them.

same...EL84's just don't do it for me. I'm basing it on various EL84 amps i have owned, and it may not be down to the tube it self, but i've always found them to be a little lacking compared to EL34's...same volume levels etc, but there was just a little life missing from those amps. Could be as you say the way they use the tubes and the circuitry around it, but they sound a bit ass-ish.

Drew_TNBD

Couldn't get rid of my Dual Terror quick enough. Big bastard valve amps please!

Mezzamort

Wow not much Love here !!!

gordiji

I found it to sound best in a mix, fairly loud & the bad points of the amp would be accentuated when playing alone. The two channels should be pretty much identical in vol however with the same gain/ vol settings, so you may have a problem here.
I also thought it souded better with open backed cab. Sold mine recently & think there's some truth in the el84 dislike. I didn't care much for the mesa i tried which too was el84.
 

Tat2dstesh

Just got a Dual terror for playing gigs away, I maybe the odd one out here but I actually really love the el84 sound, and the orange terror boosted with my OCD sounds really raw, thick and a tiny bit fuzzy but I actually like it, my other head is a custom Stoneham amp with el34's that is bassed on a hot road marshall so it's nice to have that slight difference. Plus 2 of my favourite heads I have had before this has been the orange Th30 and the Budda SD30, both i regret selling. 

Mezzamort

I like mine too it's a switch from my 69 DR & 66 Pro R ! I have also changed the OT to MM and added a 9 Henry Choke smoothed out the amp a lot it is a Great amp for the price !!!