More Courier Woes....

Parker

Ho hum.

I sold my mates SG for him. I didnt have a box. Instead used loads of bubblewrap, both inside and out the padded gigbag and reinforced the neck with a card shief. Low and behold , they snapped the neck (at the Tenon Joint!!) and now refuse to payout as it is wasn't wrapped in a box. My argument is that it shouldnt have been accepted by the driver if it didnt meet their spec, but theyre saying it wasnt his job. It was UPS through Interparcel. A shame, as I have always been an advocate of theirs!!

It looks quite a clean break in the pic the buyre sent, so I hope it may be a relatively cheap repair. Why bother with insurance....they always have a loophole to get out of paying!

Rox

In all fairness, I'd never post a Gibson without a hardcase or really solid box.  The wind blowing a little too much in the wrong direction is enough to snap some of those bad boys.

And they are right, it isn't the drivers responsibility to make sure the items are packaged correctly.

Sorry...

not_the_dj

Bad news, but I'm sure I've read somewhere in the T&Cs that instruments need to be in a hard case and outer box. Sadly a gigbag is not suitable, especially for a Gibson.

Sorry.

:-(

ICBM

Did you slacken the string tension? If not, it almost makes no difference how well boxed it was since a drop onto the front of the guitar can snap the head purely by inertia and the string tension.

Regardless, the courier will use the lack of a box to void the insurance even if that is the cause.

Rox

ICBM said:

Did you slacken the string tension? If not, it almost makes no difference how well boxed it was since a drop onto the front of the guitar can snap the head purely by inertia and the string tension.

Regardless, the courier will use the lack of a box to void the insurance even if that is the cause.

That's a good point, whenever I've sent a guitar by courier, I always slacken off the strings (and let the buyer know!).

littlethoughts

I actually once received a strat that was in a gigbag, wrapped in parcel paper. That was it. The strat didn't have a mark on it and was near enough in tune. It sucks that it was broken but I think caution is the absolute name of the game when posting a set neck.

Parker

ICBM said:

Did you slacken the string tension? If not, it almost makes no difference how well boxed it was since a drop onto the front of the guitar can snap the head purely by inertia and the string tension.

Regardless, the courier will use the lack of a box to void the insurance even if that is the cause.

Rule #1 - I do on all guitars I post. Usually use a box too....!

shuikit

I've never understood how couriers can get away with stuff like this, I mean getting a parcel from a to b safely is what they've been paid to do so surely if they haven't managed this then surely they haven't taken 'reasonable care and skill' and to my understanding they can't get around this by writing into other T&Cs. 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#services

ICBM

Parker said:

Rule #1 - I do on all guitars I post. Usually use a box too....!

OK, they squashed it then! Idiots.

mellowsun

To get the full insurance with a courier you'd have to pay about 50 quid to ship the guitar. 

In many cases it might be cheaper to pay for the seller to deliver it to you in person, drive there yourself or even pay for the return train fare.

Posting a guitar in just a gig-bag is too risky. I'll only post a guitar if it's in a Hiscox case.

Rox

Google Translator for Couriers:  FRAGILE means

Fling
Round
Aggressively
Grab
Irresponsibly
Like
Elephant

Parker

shuikit;307552" said:

I've never understood how couriers can get away with stuff like this, I mean getting a parcel from a to b safely is what they've been paid to do so surely if they haven't managed this then surely they haven't taken 'reasonable care and skill' and to my understanding they can't get around this by writing into other T&Cs. 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#services

Personally, I agree with this. But does it apply here? Any legal eagles? I'll happily dig my heals in- IF I have a leg to stand on?

Rox

I would have thought if you sign up to T&C's that say they won't accept an item unless it's packed a particular way, they've made a declaration of how they will handle an item they're delivering.

As you (presumably) said you agreed with the T&C's, but didn't pack it in accordance with that agreement, I'd say it doesn't give you any wiggle room.  Otherwise people could poorly pack already damaged items, and then rely on insurance to get the full value on something knackered allegedly 'during transit'.

I'd also argue that if you did try to get around the T&C's, you'd still have to argue that your packaging was appropriate for a set-neck guitar - and to be honest, it doesn't sound like it was.

Gagaryn

I think you'd have to argue you had taken due care when packing it. I think the consensus, even here where folk are on your side would be your packaging was inadequate.

Strat_a_tat_tat

As Gagaryn said.

Sad but true.

Good luck with the repair.

Rigid_Digits

I watched a DPD van driver the other day from my house. He couldn't tell anyone was able to see him and he was just dropping boxes, some of which looked like the ones guitars come in, onto the floor of his van without any care. I could hear the bang as they hit the floor from my house which was about 100 yards away. Made me wonder what state the items inside were going to be in for the poor people when delivered to them. He was sorting out things after having made a delivery to a neighbouring house. Having seen this I'm not surprised to see the tales of damaged guitars from time to time.

Danny1969

When it comes to shipping stuff you either gotta pack it bomb proof so it will survive anything or don't use any packing so they can see it's fragile ...... anything in between is dodgy

I have some sympathy for couriers. Your average Citylink driver has to start at 7am to load up and then deliver around 120 drops before he can start his collections. They often can't park but aren't allowed to stop in the road with the engine running, about 1\2 the people aren't in which means they gotta try again or it goes on tomorrows drops ..... some houses don't have numbers ........ try see'ing a little sign saying Meadows Cottage in the pouring rain in Winter time at 5 oclcock . The moneys pretty much minimum wage. In all honesty it's not really possible to do the job properly in today's environment due to traffic and parking

As far as damage goes, things normally go from your local courier to central hub via artic lorry ... then it's put on train by central hub workers so a lot of damage can happen there that's nothing to do with your chosen courier.  

As far as payouts go I've used Citylink for 14 years and they have paid in full for all the claims of lost or damaged goods that were valid. So I still use them. You can send a guitar fully insured for about £20

Parker

Clearly the majority on here think it's ok to be at the mercy of terrible customer service by couriers. Here are a couple of ill thought out similar scenarios;

You book on an airline. Would you like to pay for extra insurance in case we crash and you die? We won't pay out if you wear blue though as you may confuse the pilot in to thinking you're the sky!

Before you have a massage, would you like to add £5.95 to the bill to cover any breakages?

Thank you for switching to Eon. Might I recommend you pay 10% extra a year to cover the cost of candles and a generator in case we fail to supply you off the national grid?

Why is this acceptable in this service industry, but no other?

Danny1969

Parker said:

Clearly the majority on here think it's ok to be at the mercy of terrible customer service by couriers. Here are a couple of ill thought out similar scenarios;

You book on an airline. Would you like to pay for extra insurance in case we crash and you die? We won't pay out if you wear blue though as you may confuse the pilot in to thinking you're the sky!

Before you have a massage, would you like to add £5.95 to the bill to cover any breakages?

Thank you for switching to Eon. Might I recommend you pay 10% extra a year to cover the cost of candles and a generator in case we fail to supply you off the national grid?

Why is this acceptable in this service industry, but no other?

Well you can lose a freezer full of food in a powercut and no ones gonna pay out ...... you could lose an online  deal because your ISP went down and no one will pay out. It's how things are I spose

I'm a Citylink account holder, they insure as standard no extra charge .... that's one of the reasons we don't use UPS despite the UPS network being very efficient...... that and they had some weird rules about glass  and breakables

Parker

But the definition of a courier is 'somebody providing delivery service'. Their direct, sole product is to get your item from A to B for money. Losing out on a fridge full of food is a byproduct of faulty goods. The goods themselves are covered under the Sales of Good Act. All other services seem to be covered by this too, but couriers can make themselves exempt through T&Cs....or can they? That's what I want to know. Theoretically, I should be able to send a Ming Vase wrapped in newspaper and it arrive safely. Why shouldn't it?

Fortheloveofguitar

Parker;20613" said:

Why bother with insurance....they always have a loophole to get out of paying!

Not the case here. You simply cut corners and didn't pack it properly, end of. You were asking for trouble before it even left your house.

You could have gone to a self storage company and bought a box for little more than a fiver.

You've made it easy for them to wriggle out of it and with all the courier horror stories on here involving items that were well packed you should have known better.

Sorry buddy but super lazy on your part so no point in questioning the morales and working practices of the courier industry.