Nomad's 12-String Tele Build

Nomad

No idea if I'm too late for this, but I figure I might as well put my build diary in here since I'm using a kit from the same range as everyone else.

I guess a bit of relevant background is in order, since I just joined the forum. I've never built a guitar before, although I did refinish my first guitar (a Woolycaster that wasn't good enough to look like a strat copy, but looked much worse). I stripped it to bits, sanded it painted it with blue car paint and lacquered it with some clear stuff. I also worked the frets a bit and got the action nice and low. It was a horrible guitar, but it played quite nicely. Since then, I've done the odd bit of setup work, including stoning the frets on a cheap acoustic which ended up with an action that was much lower than is practical for an acoustic. I'm pretty good wiv me 'ands and my spare room is a decently equipped workshop for doing smaller scale wood and metalwork. I'm rubbish at spray-painting and have every intention of avoiding that during this build (already ordered a bottle of Tru-Oil). Anyway...

I decided I'd like to build something a bit different in terms of the guitars I have, or have played. Never tried a 12-string electric before, so I went with the 12-string "Knoxville" Telecaster style kit. Full marks to G4M - from ordering online to delivery into my grubby mitts was about 24 hours.

The plan is to do a partial assembly first, to check that the neck, pickups and bridge all line up correctly. If that's all good, I'll probably amuse myself with some sanding while I consider the finish. I want the neck and board to have an aged tint - some sort of yellowy amber colour. If I can bring up the flame in the board by staining, I think I'd like to try that. Not sure about the body yet. I like the classic butterscotch Tele look, but I keep thinking that something translucent red might work for this - wine or cherry red sort of thing. The plan is to use Tru-Oil over dyes, but I have no idea what dyes to get yet.

What's the deal with using Tru-Oil on a maple fingerboard? Too susceptible to wear? Am I better considering something tougher?

Nomad

Just been having a look at the kit, and here are some photos of the woody bits...

The Body

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/The%20Woody%20Bits/DIY_12-string_tele_01_zpsa2c42cff.jpg

Pretty much as expected, except that it has a black binding. While this might have a prettiness factor, it does influence what I might do for the finish. I had been musing on a possible veneer on the front, but I don't fancy trying to get a nice edge with the binding in place. I had also been considering making it a double cut, mirroring the lower horn on the other side, but the binding isn't long enough to make it all the way round. That's a bit of a shame, because the symmetrical headstock in conjunction with a symmetrical double cut would make for a rather nice overall look. Then again, I'd probably want to change the way the pickups and controls are laid out. I'm currently leaning towards the idea of keeping things relatively simple and just go for some finish or other and keep it as a 12-string Tele.

 

Neck Fit

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/The%20Woody%20Bits/DIY_12-string_tele_02_zps4dcb6a33.jpg

I popped the neck in to get an idea of the fit. The sides are near perfect - needs a bit of a push to get it in. I notice that there's a small gap between the end of the neck and the scratchplate, but not sure if that's because I didn't push it in far enough.

 

Neck & Body Together

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/The%20Woody%20Bits/DIY_12-string_tele_03_zps33f6435d.jpg

Doesn't look too bad aside from maybe looking a bit heavy at the headstock, which is probably unavoidable. The actual weight and balance looks quite promising - I weighed the bits, and got 2400g for the body, 700g for the neck, and 900g for the bag of bits. 4kg overall, and I guess about 1kg in the neck and machine heads. Bodes well for a guitar that won't have much neck dive (especially with my wide leather strap).

 

A Closer Look

A few photos looking at it up close...

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/The%20Woody%20Bits/DIY_12-string_tele_04_zps6dd0eaef.jpg

A ding at the back of the horn to be sanded out. The body where the palm will be for playing up the neck will need to be rounded off a bit for comfort.

 

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/The%20Woody%20Bits/DIY_12-string_tele_05_zps6291abb6.jpg

Not the smoothest finish in the world, but not surprising really.

 

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/The%20Woody%20Bits/DIY_12-string_tele_06_zpse14922c1.jpg

Note that the scratchplate has a bevelled edge - a sensible touch if you're playing over the end of the fingerboard. Why is there a hole leading to the neck pocket? Is the neck plate supposed to be grounded?

 

The Fingerboard

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/The%20Woody%20Bits/DIY_12-string_tele_07_zpsb2fb514e.jpg

Got a nice little surprise when I found that the maple fingerboard has a touch of flame in it. This is after a wipe with a slightly damp sponge.

Andyjr1515

It's looking good @Nomad

They're great kits for the money, aren't they

Nomad

Yeah, I'm impressed at what you get. The price would be good for just the body and neck, which makes the bag of hardware effectively free. A bit rough around the edges, maybe, but that's fine by me.

RedRabbit

Looking forward to see this come together.

I got my dye from here - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LIBERON-15ml-Concentrated-Water-Based-Wood-Dye-ALL-COLOURS-8-TO-CHOOSE-FROM-/200958454537?pt=UK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&var=&hash=item2eca0eab09

Results can be seen here - http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/18485/redrabbit-s-tele-build#latest

I've also just applied the first coat of the blue dye to my new strat body.  It's looking good already and is really easy to use.

monquixote

Nice, look forward to seeing how it comes together. 

Nomad

Thanks RedRabbit - Liberon looks fine. I'll think about my intended colours and work out which ones to get.

How do you find the Tru-Oil on the fingerboard? Does it seem reasonably resilient to wear?

imalone

Nomad said:

Note that the scratchplate has a bevelled edge - a sensible touch if you're playing over the end of the fingerboard. Why is there a hole leading to the neck pocket? Is the neck plate supposed to be grounded?

On mine it looked like the hole for the pickup wires was drilled through from the neck pocket. I've a similar arrangement on a guitarbuild body where there was a slot between the neck pocket and the neck pickup which probably allowed them to drill through the wiring hole for the neck pickup to the wiring channel. Don't think you want the neck plate grounded.
Good luck with the build! Sounds like you're more than up to it.

WezV

the hole in the neck pocket is not to ground the neck plate.  most of the guitars I make have a similar hole in the neck pocket, its a good  way to drill wiring channels.  I normally drill from the neck pocket all the way to the bridge pickup but on these kits they have gone at an angle from neck pocket to cavity

you can use tru-oil over stains but you need to be very gentle with the first few coats or it will lift the stain.  you need to just wipe it on and leave it.  the idea is to use it like a lacquer and build up thin coats.... but really i think tru-oil is best  when not used like a lacquer, but when its used as a rubbed in/wetsanded oil finish.  you can still do this on the neck and it will feel great.  Its hard wearing for an oil finish,  but if hard wearing is your priority then oil finishes are not what you should go for

sweepy

Looking very interesting, this is a sweet Winter project.

Misterg

Neat! I will watch with interest.

Tru oil is holding up well on the fretboard of my Tele (after a few months of daily play). It's a PIG to apply neatly between the frets, though (look up the 'coffee filter' method - I can elaborate if needs be.)

That ding in the back of the body will probably steam out, rather than sanding it. It's worth a try, anyway: Damp cloth over it and then a hot clothes iron for ~10 seconds. It's amazing what will just disappear.

Why only 6 holes through the body, though? Is the bridge a mixture of through-body & top-loader?

Looking forward to this taking shape. I think a little GAS flame has just been lit...

sweepy

Only seen one tele 12 string bridge and that was a hybrid , 6 toploading and 6 through-body, a proper pita to get your head around re-stringing

Nomad

Yes, it makes sense that the hole is the entry point for the channel to run wiring to the neck pickup (I hadn't looked in detail or taken the scratchplate off, and had assumed it was a channel routed in the top).

Regarding the dye lifting with the first coats of oil, would it be better to mix a spirit based dye with a little of the oil and apply the colouring that way? (I ordered an 8oz bottle, so there should be enough to play with.)

Misterg, yes, I was already aware of coffee filters as applicators, and I'll try that on some scrap wood. I also read that the fingerboard coating can be mixed with about 30% white spirit to make it thinner and keep down the build-up at the frets.

It's a hybrid bridge. Each saddle has two string channels, one leading to a hole through the body and one to the back of the bridge. There is a little L-shaped piece on each saddle so that you can adjust the intonation between the strings - you adjust the one that isn't on the L first by moving the whole saddle, and then adjust the L to intonate the other string. Sounds like something that will be a fiddle to set up, but fine once it's done.

I went to the steel ruler shop yesterday and got a long one for laying over the frets. (Screwfix, set of 6", 12" and 24" for £4.49.) Heights look pretty even after a non-critical trial sighting, which suggests that the unstressed neck is pretty straight. I think I'll probably give them a light touch with a stone before strings go on. I found a small nick in one of the high frets, so some tidying will be needed anyway, and in one of the close-up photos I took, it was clear that they could do with a polish at least.

Nomad

Been looking at the geometry today, and it all looks pretty good. The lines from the nut to the saddles on both sides look fine with respect to the edges of the neck, and it looks like the strings will pass over the pole pieces on the bridge pickup just fine. If anything, I might need to put a small shim in the neck to angle it back a little.

Fit isn't quite as good as it could be in a couple of places. The neck plate doesn't sit square, although the holes all line up - maybe a degree or two of rotation in the plate. The scratchplate would need some clearance added for it to go around the end of the neck, but only a little - the sort of thing that some careful sanding would take care of.

I've been musing on finishes, and I keep coming back to using some sort of veneer to make the front more pretty - maybe a flame or quilted maple look. Having taken the scratchplate off, there is indeed plenty of wood on the top rather than big gouges where channels have been routed, so putting veneer with a small plate to support the neck pickup may be feasible after all. If I went this route, I think I'd replace the binding, and I found a router bit that will work for cutting the rebate (it's a type with a bearing and will cut a 2mm rebate of whatever height).

I think, if I do the veneer, I do the outline as well, so I played around with a bit of paper, cut to match the shape of the horn and upper bout and the neck pocket. I then folded it in half and cut the upper bout to match the horn. I'm glad to say that the upper bout has enough wood to be turned into a mirror image of the horn. This means that a symmetrical double cut style is possible. I took a photo with the paper in place and then messed about in Photoshop to make a mock-up. Imagine the body is some figured wood finish...

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/Ideas/Outline1_zps226b5fac.jpg

So, I'm currently thinking of something like this, maybe still with a cherry red back and sides, and possibly changing to cream binding. The little plate that supports the neck pickup would likely be tort, which I happen to have a sheet of (3-layer: tort, white, black). Not sure yet about doing a burst on the top, but I think a fairly subtle honey burst might work with cream binding (I'm not really into black binding). I'd need to practice with the materials first and see how it worked out. In two minds at present about putting a veneer facing on the headstock.

paulnb57

Can I suggest a chrome single coil pickup ring for the neck pup, then it would match the bridge......

 http://www.axesrus.co.uk/Single-Coil-Pickup-Surrounds-p/scsurround.htm

 Paul

Nomad

Agreed on the chrome for visual matching. I thought I'd have to make it myself and get it plated, but if the bought ones cover the rout in the body, then I think that would be better.

Been tarting up the concept picture a bit...

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y521/Nomad_Zamani/12-String%20Telecaster%20Build/Ideas/Outline2burst_zps137775f9.jpg

Not sure about the burst yet, but I think that's what I'm seeing in my mind's eye for the top. Also reshaped the headstock a bit. Now has slightly concave curves along the machine heads and the end is shortened with a couple of concave curves. Corners rounded off a little. The logo is a little jest...

Nomad

Well, that looks pretty, but I've decided against it. Part of the reason is cost - I managed to track down some book matched veneer, but it came in rather long strips and was going to be about 40 quid. I've also never applied veneer before, and I don't think this is the time to learn (how to get it wrong). So, I've decided to go back to my original keep-it-simple thoughts and aim for a 12-string tele with an amber tinted neck, and either amber or cherry red body. I'll probably still work the headstock into the shape in my visualisation picture, although I might change the fluted feature at the top to something that echoes the telecaster body shape. I'll play with that in Photoshop sometime.

Been researching the idea of tinting the Tru-Oil rather than applying dye to the wood and then oiling. I was looking at aniline dyes in powder form, but oil soluble seems to be quite rare - most are either water or alcohol soluble. I'm not sure about how they would mix with the oil, and they're a bit pricey for an experiment. The oil soluble also seems to be less resistant to fading. Then I thought of artists oil colours. I happen to be a former oil painter and still have all my kit, so I had a look and dug out some transparent colours (most are opaque, but some are transparent for overlaying on other colours to change the tint with varying degrees subtlety).

I've homed in on Indian Yellow for the amber, possibly with a touch of Burnt Sienna (a warm medium brown) if it's too yellowy; and a red called Alizarin Crimson. If that's too red, a tiny touch of French Ultramarine blue should give it the slightly purple tinge that distinguishes cherry red from the more scarlet variety.

The Tru-Oil should hopefully turn up soon, and I'll do some experiments on some pale coloured birch ply offcuts. The plan is to reduce the oil paint in white spirit (or something similar if that doesn't work), and then mix with the oil. This should give me something that can be applied in lots of thin coats that can be sanded smooth between coats and gradually built up to the desired tint. Can then follow that with coats of the neat, untinted oil until I get bored or eager to start screwing things onto the wood.

Andyjr1515

Interesting concept. Certainly try it on some scrap first - it may well affect the drying time ( it might, in fact, remain tacky and never quite dry)

imalone

Nomad said:

I've homed in on Indian Yellow for the amber, possibly with a touch of Burnt Sienna (a warm medium brown) if it's too yellowy; and a red called Alizarin Crimson. If that's too red, a tiny touch of French Ultramarine blue should give it the slightly purple tinge that distinguishes cherry red from the more scarlet variety.

Have you ever read this book? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colour-Travels-Paintbox-Victoria-Finlay/dp/0340733292/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409309204&sr=8-1&keywords=colour (not much to do with guitars).

Nomad

Haven't read it, and probably not about to in the immediate future, although I did learn a bit about pigments when I took up painting - all sorts of stuff got mashed up and mixed with oil to make paints. (The Indian Yellow I refer to is the modern equivalent of the stuff that was originally made from cow urine, after the cows were force fed mangoes.)

imalone

Nomad said:

Haven't read it, and probably not about to in the immediate future, although I did learn a bit about pigments when I took up painting - all sorts of stuff got mashed up and mixed with oil to make paints. (The Indian Yellow I refer to is the modern equivalent of the stuff that was originally made from cow urine, after the cows were force fed mangoes.)

Yes, the Indian yellow is what reminded me! Probably not great for the cows. Also has chapters on cochineal, ultramarine and saffron walden (IIRC). And I think mummy brown.