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John_BlackWolfJohn_BlackWolf Frets: 137
edited December 2014 in Amps
Tadaaa - Orange Hardwired Tiny Terror.

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Purchased as a tour back-up for my DD50. Will likely use it in the studio too.

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Sounds absolutely killer, More gain than I expected. Super loud! I don't consider this a practice/home amp at all. If I was in a single guitar band I'd happily gig this as my #1 with pedals.

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Sounds very much like the Rocker 30 to my ears.

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Comments

  • Nice amp mate, and nice photos !!
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  • John_BlackWolfJohn_BlackWolf Frets: 137
    edited December 2014
    Quick high gain Play through of the HWTT



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  • whats the differents if any between the standard and handwired or is it just a constructional thing 
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  • whats the differents if any between the standard and handwired or is it just a constructional thing 

    I believe the circuit it identical, just the construction and quality of parts that have changed.
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  • speshul91speshul91 Frets: 1397
    Sounds as nice as it looks. Nice shirt btw
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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2328
    Nice :D
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    Handwired equals better quality and purer signal path that's also easier to work on. This typically means you get a richer sounding and more dynamic and responsive tone.
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • randomhandclapsrandomhandclaps Frets: 20521
    edited December 2014

    Build quality and attention to layout are the most important factors in amp circuit design regardless of whether they are PTP or PCB.  The exact same circuit wired PTP or laid out well on PCB will sound and react the same.

    IMO the massive advantage in purchasing a hand-wired Tiny Terror is that they hold their resale value far better because they are rarer.  Plus you get that warm, reassuring feeling that someone has (apparently) put personal attention into building your amp.

    My muse is not a horse and art is not a race.
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    edited December 2014
    I don't agree. A handwired Vox AC30 sounds and feels quite different to a stock AC30.
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 7472
    edited December 2014
    Voxman said:
    I don't agree. A handwired Vox AC30 sounds and feels quite different to a stock AC30.
    Why would a hand wired amp with the same components and layout sound any different to a PCB? Surely, especially in high gain amps (which are prone to noise) a PCB can be a good thing? Genuine question. 

    Of course, hand wired versions of amps possibly use better components or a better layout or even a different circuit.  So it's not necessarily that they're the same amps. I've never tried the hw tiny terror, so don't know, but AC30s seem to vary quite a bit from one model to another. 
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    edited December 2014
    Handwired point to point gives the shortest distance between connections, reducing signal loss and thus enhancing tone. Interesting article here. In short handwired PTP will always sound better. Its one of the reasons that HW amps (not all but some eg AC15/30HW) tend to have a purer design and not have extras found in the stock pcb version such as an fx loop, reverb, tremolo etc that are an extra link in the signal chain and impact on tonal integrity.
    http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/pcb-vs-handwired
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • I always thought ptp was probably the worst wiring, they always look like a birds nest compared to, say, a pcb or a turret board.

    The lack of extras I put down to being too much work - lots of hand builders include effects loops and power scaling on their amps, although they may (or may not, genuinely don't know) have a total effect.

    In that article, the photo is a turret board amp, not point to point, which makes me question is pgs know what they're on about ;)

    Also, I'd have thought a well thought out pcb would have a very short distance between components as they go direct to the board, rather than needing a hand-workable length of wire to sort.

    But again, this is me just looking at pictures of the various construction methods. I suspect pcbs may have more noise if the tracks are too close together? I've heard that lead dress is very important for noise, and a well made hand wired amp could definitely have an advantage there.

    Maybe @icbm can help - I want a hand wired amp, but mostly because I know I can spec the amp myself and guarantee that it's well built by a chap who's very skilled.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    There is no real difference in tone between hand-wired and PCB *if* the exact same circuit and components are used. The reason they do often sound different is because those things are rarely true. Most hand-wired amps use simpler circuits and higher quality parts.

    The lead distance between components isn't directly relevant, although the physical separation between them can be, because it introduces capacitance. PCB does tend to have smaller separation between traces, which can affect the sound (and is sometimes deliberately used to do so), but if you laid out a PCB with narrow widely-separated traces like wires, that wouldn't apply.

    A really good example are the Marshalls made in 1973, when they changed from turret-board to PCB, using the same circuit and components. They sound the same, allowing for the fact that they're quite variable anyway! You can't tell from the outside by listening whether a particular one is turret or PCB.

    I don't doubt the hand-wired Terror sounds better than the stock one, but it's not just because it's hand wired, it's most likely because the components are better.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • I've never even seen a hand wired tiny terror in the flesh, are they rare? 

    I've heard they existed before this, mind, but still! 
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    edited December 2014
    ICBM said:
    There is no real difference in tone between hand-wired and PCB *if* the exact same circuit and components are used. The reason they do often sound different is because those things are rarely true. Most hand-wired amps use simpler circuits and higher quality parts.

    The lead distance between components isn't directly relevant, although the physical separation between them can be, because it introduces capacitance. PCB does tend to have smaller separation between traces, which can affect the sound (and is sometimes deliberately used to do so), but if you laid out a PCB with narrow widely-separated traces like wires, that wouldn't apply.

    A really good example are the Marshalls made in 1973, when they changed from turret-board to PCB, using the same circuit and components. They sound the same, allowing for the fact that they're quite variable anyway! You can't tell from the outside by listening whether a particular one is turret or PCB.

    I don't doubt the hand-wired Terror sounds better than the stock one, but it's not just because it's hand wired, it's most likely because the components are better.
    Very confusing as there seems to be such an apparent wide diversity of opinion here in different tech articles.  :-S

    So, taking the AC15/30HW amps as an example - why didn't Vox just make a PCB version with top quality components instead of a HW, as it would sound the same but be cheaper to build?  

    Also, what's the difference between PTP and turret board, which is best, and which method is adopted in the Vox HW's?
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • Voxman said:
    So, taking the AC15/30HW amps as an example - why didn't Vox just make a PCB version with top quality components instead of a HW, as it would sound the same but be cheaper to build?  

    Quite simply because people are under the impression that PTP is the 'ultimate standard' and are similarly suspect of PTP.  It's similar to asking why is it you can buy a Tubescreamer for £50 yet some people are only happy when they are paying £500 for one.
    My muse is not a horse and art is not a race.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    edited December 2014
    Voxman said:
    So, taking the AC15/30HW amps as an example - why didn't Vox just make a PCB version with top quality components instead of a HW, as it would sound the same but be cheaper to build?
    Marketing.

    Voxman said:
    Also, what's the difference between PTP and turret board, which is best, and which method is adopted in the Vox HW's?
    Turret board*.

    True PTP is where there's no board at all, like the Hard-Wired Tiny Terror. For anything other than a very simple design this quickly becomes a complete mess, and maintenance is difficult. Turret-board is a good compromise, but has one disadvantage which is roughly double the number of solder joints, since both the component and the wire are soldered to the turret. Not a problem if they're inspected thoroughly.

    It's similar to asking why is it you can buy a Tubescreamer for £50 yet some people are only happy when they are paying £500 for one.
    Even more ludicrous, you can buy a Hand Wired Tube Screamer, that still uses the JRC4558 chip… which itself contains more internal components, factory-made on a tiny little chip of silicon, than the entire rest of the circuit! So it's not really hand wired at all when you think about it :).


    *The current HWs are true turret board. The previous 'Heritage HW' series were turret-PCB! ie a PCB fitted with turrets to which the components are then attached. Arguably the worst of all worlds because it has both the problems of PCB - intertrace capacitance, difficulty of maintenance if you need to get at the underside of the board, which you might - *and* those of turret board... double the number of joints and possible component vibration.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Back on track…

    Hard Wired Tiny Terror:


    Standard Tiny Terror:


    Notice not only the true PTP construction in the Hard Wired, but the much larger and higher quality components throughout, everything from resistors and caps to the pots, and that the Hard Wired might actually be a slightly simpler circuit too - it's a bit hard to work out but there appear to be slightly fewer components.

    So I don't doubt at all that it sounds better. But it's much easier to market it as doing so because it's 'Hard Wired' because that taps into existing prejudice, than to explain what difference those components make.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ICBM said:
    Back on track…

    Hard Wired Tiny Terror:


    Standard Tiny Terror:


    Notice not only the true PTP construction in the Hard Wired, but the much larger and higher quality components throughout, everything from resistors and caps to the pots, and that the Hard Wired might actually be a slightly simpler circuit too - it's a bit hard to work out but there appear to be slightly fewer components.

    So I don't doubt at all that it sounds better. But it's much easier to market it as doing so because it's 'Hard Wired' because that taps into existing prejudice, than to explain what difference those components make.

    prefer the pcb, its more pretty and colourful :)
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  • kelv_wkelv_w Frets: 260
    HNAD! Got it from Peach? 
    Loving mine too, had a PCB TT in the past...sold it but still missed having one. Grab one the moment I saw the HW being available again. 
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