Sweet home alabama

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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    The Tonic is D the Key is G.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357


    I've never played with anybody who thinks it's in G.
    It's so blatantly D when I listen to it I feel like I'm going mad! :)

    I've never played it with anyone who thinks it's in D :)    it's so G it's like how much more G could it be and the answers none more G 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    GuyBoden said:
    The Tonic is D the Key is G.

    Nooooo! Key and tonic are synonyms!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • the live versions in this thread?
    The ones that are pretty much exactly the same as the recorded version except that at the end of the piece they end on a G?
    Sorry, that doesn;t make it G major

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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    viz said:
    GuyBoden said:
    The Tonic is D the Key is G.

    Nooooo! Key and tonic are synonyms!
    Unfortunately, the Tonic and the Key are not the same thing. This is probably the cause of confusion.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • MatthewShredderyMatthewShreddery Frets: 861
    edited May 2015
    GuyBoden said:
    The Tonic is D the Key is G.
    @GuyBoden Are you serious? :)
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  • Try singing a G over all the chords - sounds turd.
    Now sing a D over all the chords - sounds much better.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited May 2015
    It's the 'music' in those bars in the last half of the song - the way it's just thump thump thump thump, the toanilty of the bass homing in on the G, the lack of acceleration away from the end of each bar towards the D. In the studio version there's much more movement away from the G back to the D (plus, yes it's a fade-out). That's why I've always thought it was in D before. I haven't listened to it since I started this damn thread so maybe I'd find it in G now, i'll check sometime tomorrow. :)

    anyway, it's quite interesting this isn't it!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357

    Well just had a little play putting a G drone on all three chords and I like it ..... course the C and G chord had a G anyway  ........ :)
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • You don't change the key of an entire piece of music just by changing the last few bars, as if everything that happened before has no significance anymore.

    Listen to almost any concerto. They are usually titled "so-and-so concerto in A minor" yet they modulate all over the place and often end in a completely different key.

    I could play an Em vamp for12 minutes, then finish tierce de picardie on E major and suddenly the whole thing is E major?
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited March 2016
    You don't change the key of an entire piece of music just by changing the last few bars, as if everything that happened before has no significance anymore.

    Listen to almost any concerto. They are usually titled "so-and-so concerto in A minor" yet they modulate all over the place and often end in a completely different key.

    I could play an Em vamp for12 minutes, then finish tierce de picardie on E major and suddenly the whole thing is E major?

    Is that to me? I'm not saying it's in g because of the last chord though. It helps, but it's 5%. And let's not forget that SHA doesn't even modulate - it just has some sections that point more to D and others that point more to G. There's got to be something else that's causing this discussion, and that something is the phrasing, not the underlying chords. As we've seen, it's possible to make it sound in both keys, hence this thread ;)

    I'm saying that those live versions are more in G than the studio version purely because of the way it's played, particularly in the 2nd half, meaning basically all the song after the Birmingham hoohoohoo bit. Every player is contributing to it. The bass is thumping out the Gs. The there are no more offbeats at the ends of the bars, no more F and C chords in bar 4, less syncopated rhythm which would have helped accelerate away from the G, the repeating chorus over and over. And those backing singers! Just relentless GG at the end. Like Exploited's Sex and Violence. And finally the icing on the cake, the last note, which doesn't come at you like some sort of interrupted cadence or modulation - it's just the finality of that G which has been driven home for half the song by then.

    The first half is more ambiguous, it has cues that point to G and cues that point to D. I personally feel it's a much better half, and I prefer playing it such that D is the root. We don't stick to the letter when we play this song, we do many more of the offbeats and dotted C chords in bar 4, even during the choruses and throughout the repeats, so we make it in D all the way through. But hearing their live versions makes me realise that we've mis-interpreted the song.

    Anyway gotta be off - cheers, Viz :)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357

    SHA spends more time on the G than any other chord .. so the G is very significent 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    edited May 2015
    I think of it in D
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357

    another witch burn him :)
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • @Viz - sorry mate. Yes that was directed at you :) Catch you later.
    @Danny1969 - It's not significant in the slightest. 
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    MatthewShreddery;653532" said:
    @Viz - sorry mate. Yes that was directed at you :) Catch you later.@Danny1969 - It's not significant in the slightest. 
    Ah I'm beginning to see why you think it s in D

    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • Why's that then?
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357

    Because throughout the song you hear G major more than any other tonality .... to most people that defines the key more than any technical reason. So for me here are some examples and the key I would set

    Hey Joe = E
    Waiting for an alibi = E
    With or without you = D
    Panama = E




    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • I agree with all of your keys for those songs. 
    I mean, it's not rocket science - it's actually really easy.
    Did you notice that a lot of them do not use the 'key' chord (tonic) very much?

    The length of time spent on a chord does not make that chord the key of the song, which is what your previous post appears to suggest. Apologies if this is not what you meant.

    When I listen to SHA I hear the harmony in a sequence thus:

    1. Inescapably bright sounding D chord, on the strongest beat of the whole riff. (beat one, bar one).
    2. C chord. Sounding slightly darker, less stable and the beat is getting weaker.
    3. G chord - darker still. More stable than C. Needs resolution. Beat getting weaker.
    4. Ahhhh, relief! Back to D. Home. Tonic. All is well again.

    repeat repeat repeat repeat...




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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited June 2015
    GuyBoden said:
    viz said:
    GuyBoden said:
    The Tonic is D the Key is G.

    Nooooo! Key and tonic are synonyms!
    Unfortunately, the Tonic and the Key are not the same thing. This is probably the cause of confusion.

    @guyboden Can you give an example mate? The tonic and the key and the I chord and the root (root chord, not root note in a chord) are all the same thing in my book. I can't think of a single example where they could ever be seen as different. If the key sig is 1 sharp, then the song is in G or E minor; and the tonic is either G or E minor. As is the I chord, as is the song's 'root'. No?

    edit - Maybe you're thinking of, say, a song in E major with flattened 7ths all the way through? Basically based on a E mixolydian scale. Well, then it would still be in the key of E, the tonic and I chord and root chord would still be E, but it would have an D Natural written throughout. You wouldn't say the tonic is A just because the E has flat 7ths (if that's what you mean - I'm trying to understand where you're coming from).

    Like for the blues in E, you play E7, right? And you can think of that chord as a secondary dominant when it moves to the IV. Nevertheless it's still the tonic, you don't call A the tonic. That E7 is called a Tonic flat 7, not a dominant 7, because B is the dominant.

    But probably that's not what you meant anyway - sorry, just trying to understand your point.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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