Game of Thrones

smudge_lad

I really hope we get answers to the whole Night King thing. I wonder if somehow, there is still a connection to Brandon Stark from where the NK touched him, and somehow he comes back or lives through Brandon?

ToneControl

RaymondLin said:

It was good TV but if you apply any kind of logic to it to the battle it really starts to bug you.

With such overwhelming force coming, the first line of defence is to charge?  Have they not watched Braveheart?  Especially when it's all in the dark.  Why did they not use the Dragons to light up the path in front of them?

Also they knew he can raise the dead,  then the forces should really set a trap from the beginning to get the NK, not fight his army dead on since any of your dead will be his.

The battle, with all the supposedly smart people they really lack all tactics.

But it made for good TV.

yeah, why not attack with the dragons first, instead of sacrificing all your Dothrakis first?

munckee

Apparently the dothraki thing was due to Battle of the b'stards episode costing nearly the whole budget to do the horse battles as so hard to do so they freed up masses of budget by not showing it.

White walkers have to be the most ineffective force ever, all they had to do was watch his back and they were unbeatable.

boogieman

The night king background might be resolved by the prequel they’re shooting, it covers the original rising of the wight walkers and how the children of the forest fought with the first men and created the night king. 

The show has a lot of ground to cover in the last series so the army of the dead had to be dealt with before anything else I think. It did seem a bit rushed though and there were a lot of echoes of LOTR. I’m sure there’s a lot more epic stuff to come: Cersei has recruited a whole army of mercenaries so I’m  expecting another huge battle, plus there’s the issue of who will finally reign. I think Bran still has a big part to play in all this. 

ToneControl

boogieman said:

The night king background might be resolved by the prequel they’re shooting, it covers the original rising of the wight walkers and how the children of the forest fought with the first men and created the night king. 

The show has a lot of ground to cover in the last series so the army of the dead had to be dealt with before anything else I think. It did seem a bit rushed though and there were a lot of echoes of LOTR. I’m sure there’s a lot more epic stuff to come: Cersei has recruited a whole army of mercenaries so I’m  expecting another huge battle, plus there’s the issue of who will finally reign. I think Bran still has a big part to play in all this. 

whose face can Arya borrow to get to Cersei?

Snap

Battle of the Bastards was much better full stop. This episode was a needed step up after two reasonably dull episodes. The first two shows could have been condensed into a half hour or so really. Disappointing. Come on, they have had a couple of years to do this. Not bitching, but IMO justifiably disappointed in what they have done so far, given the time had, and the build up.

DrJazzTap

ToneControl said:

boogieman said:

The night king background might be resolved by the prequel they’re shooting, it covers the original rising of the wight walkers and how the children of the forest fought with the first men and created the night king. 

The show has a lot of ground to cover in the last series so the army of the dead had to be dealt with before anything else I think. It did seem a bit rushed though and there were a lot of echoes of LOTR. I’m sure there’s a lot more epic stuff to come: Cersei has recruited a whole army of mercenaries so I’m  expecting another huge battle, plus there’s the issue of who will finally reign. I think Bran still has a big part to play in all this. 

whose face can Arya borrow to get to Cersei?

Jaime Lannister

Bidley

Danny1969 said:

It's a shame because the original writing was original and overall politics based rather than central character based ... in this format you have latitude to kill lead character's in support of the general narrative .... this gives the best episodes like red wedding. Once you base the show around the actual characters that option goes and it all becomes a bit cliched for me. Shame cos when it hit it's stride in season 2 to 4 it was a great watch    

Exactly this. When the writers ran out of material from the books and started writing their own, it started to go a bit off the boil.

Jon Snow being an heir to the Iron Throne was so poor. You could tell it was shoehorned in because everyone loves Jon Snow. The fact that everyone believes it because Bran said so and Sam read it in a book is extremely flimsey.

TimmyO

boogieman said:

The night king background might be resolved by the prequel they’re shooting, it covers the original rising of the wight walkers and how the children of the forest fought with the first men and created the night king. 

The show has a lot of ground to cover in the last series so the army of the dead had to be dealt with before anything else I think. It did seem a bit rushed though and there were a lot of echoes of LOTR. I’m sure there’s a lot more epic stuff to come: Cersei has recruited a whole army of mercenaries so I’m  expecting another huge battle, plus there’s the issue of who will finally reign. I think Bran still has a big part to play in all this. 

There is already a flashback scene showing the night king being created by the children of the forest 

darthed1981

Bidley said:

Danny1969 said:

It's a shame because the original writing was original and overall politics based rather than central character based ... in this format you have latitude to kill lead character's in support of the general narrative .... this gives the best episodes like red wedding. Once you base the show around the actual characters that option goes and it all becomes a bit cliched for me. Shame cos when it hit it's stride in season 2 to 4 it was a great watch    

Exactly this. When the writers ran out of material from the books and started writing their own, it started to go a bit off the boil.

Jon Snow being an heir to the Iron Throne was so poor. You could tell it was shoehorned in because everyone loves Jon Snow. The fact that everyone believes it because Bran said so and Sam read it in a book is extremely flimsey.

Well they are writing their own dialogue and the ways to get to places, the deep story.

But R+L = J was a book theory WAAAYYYY before the show, and is NOT an invention of the showrunners.

GRRM has filled in the showrunners on who lives, who dies, how everyone ends up, and the broad strokes of how they get there.  At this point he has told them everything he knows. 

Bear in mind that GRRM will NEVER FINISH those books.  He will prevaricate himself into the grave.  If I were a betting man I'd not hold my breath for Winds of Winter, let alone A Dream of Spring, GRRM is just bored of writing them, and I think he is a bit over-awed by the show.  He keeps delivering other books to keep his publishers in hookers and blow, but he can tell them to f**k off as long as he likes on WOW.

boogieman

TimmyO said:

boogieman said:

The night king background might be resolved by the prequel they’re shooting, it covers the original rising of the wight walkers and how the children of the forest fought with the first men and created the night king. 

The show has a lot of ground to cover in the last series so the army of the dead had to be dealt with before anything else I think. It did seem a bit rushed though and there were a lot of echoes of LOTR. I’m sure there’s a lot more epic stuff to come: Cersei has recruited a whole army of mercenaries so I’m  expecting another huge battle, plus there’s the issue of who will finally reign. I think Bran still has a big part to play in all this. 

There is already a flashback scene showing the night king being created by the children of the forest 

Yeah I know, but it wasn’t explained why they did it. 

fretmeister

When the Red Woman and Arya were with the Hound she said that Arya would cause the last breath of brown eyes, green eyes and blue eyes.

At that point there was no way Arya wasn't going to be the one to kill the Night King.

Schnozz

Where did Arya come from at the end? Considering Bran was completely surrounded and the dragon was blocking John. 
Did several of the characters not get overwhelmed and ripped apart about 3 times?  
Why couldn't the Night King be killed by fire?
How come a horde went to kill the approx. 15 Iron Born and when it cut back, they were just picking off odd ones and twos thereafter?

There was just a massive pile of bodies around each of the characters they wanted to keep and then the lesser characters died after about 20 stabs.

Naff.

darthed1981

boogieman said:

TimmyO said:

boogieman said:

The night king background might be resolved by the prequel they’re shooting, it covers the original rising of the wight walkers and how the children of the forest fought with the first men and created the night king. 

The show has a lot of ground to cover in the last series so the army of the dead had to be dealt with before anything else I think. It did seem a bit rushed though and there were a lot of echoes of LOTR. I’m sure there’s a lot more epic stuff to come: Cersei has recruited a whole army of mercenaries so I’m  expecting another huge battle, plus there’s the issue of who will finally reign. I think Bran still has a big part to play in all this. 

There is already a flashback scene showing the night king being created by the children of the forest 

Yeah I know, but it wasn’t explained why they did it. 

I believe it is covered in more depth in the books, but it was a mistaken over-reaction, creating a super-weapon to deal with their conflict with the First Men.

A bit like opening the nuclear pandora's box in WW2, the consequences will probably one day be a thermonuclear conflict, but we can't get rid of the damn things now they exist.

RaymondLin

Schnozz said:

Where did Arya come from at the end? Considering Bran was completely surrounded and the dragon was blocking John. 
Did several of the characters not get overwhelmed and ripped apart about 3 times?  
Why couldn't the Night King be killed by fire?
How come a horde went to kill the approx. 15 Iron Born and when it cut back, they were just picking off odd ones and twos thereafter?

There was just a massive pile of bodies around each of the characters they wanted to keep and then the lesser characters died after about 20 stabs.

Naff.

The drawing she gave to whats his name to make his weapon, the spear has a spring mechanism. built in, basically implied that she kinda pole vaulted over them all from the back. 

munckee

Schnozz said:

Where did Arya come from at the end? Considering Bran was completely surrounded and the dragon was blocking John. 
Did several of the characters not get overwhelmed and ripped apart about 3 times?  
Why couldn't the Night King be killed by fire?
How come a horde went to kill the approx. 15 Iron Born and when it cut back, they were just picking off odd ones and twos thereafter?

There was just a massive pile of bodies around each of the characters they wanted to keep and then the lesser characters died after about 20 stabs.

Naff.

I think she came out of the castle by way of the tunnels she would have known about having lived there.  The dead made a path for the white walkers and you saw one flinch when he realised he had been passed by something small so I think she just followed them.

You never saw the horde after the ironborn just heard them and they picked some off with arrows.  They did attack one by one to allow the iron born to keep them away, happens in every film that.

Don't fully understand the fire thing, the reason that valerian steel and dragon glass kills wights is because it is made from dragon fire - I read a guess that its the reversing of his origin, stabbing with the valerian steel by the werewood tree as planned by Bran after seeing his origin in his visions.

FarleyUK

Watched it at 6am this morning - great episode!

Agree with the lack of battle logic though. What if the NK had attacked from the rear or sides?

My biggest surprise is that only 4 main characters were killed off. I was expecting Brienne, Pod, Onion Night and others to go.

Also - "tHe cRiPtS aRe tEh SafEsT plAcE". Pfffffft. Why did nobody think 'Hang on, he can raise the dead; where's the one place we DON'T want to put unarmed women and children?' Was hoping for a Beheaded Dead Ned (tm) cameo as well.

fretmeister

Bidley said:

Danny1969 said:

It's a shame because the original writing was original and overall politics based rather than central character based ... in this format you have latitude to kill lead character's in support of the general narrative .... this gives the best episodes like red wedding. Once you base the show around the actual characters that option goes and it all becomes a bit cliched for me. Shame cos when it hit it's stride in season 2 to 4 it was a great watch    

Exactly this. When the writers ran out of material from the books and started writing their own, it started to go a bit off the boil.

Jon Snow being an heir to the Iron Throne was so poor. You could tell it was shoehorned in because everyone loves Jon Snow. The fact that everyone believes it because Bran said so and Sam read it in a book is extremely flimsey.

JS being the heir wasn't invented for the show.

It's in the books.

RaymondLin

Massive missed opportunity last night for Sean Bean to make a cameo.

Bidley

fretmeister said:

Bidley said:

Danny1969 said:

It's a shame because the original writing was original and overall politics based rather than central character based ... in this format you have latitude to kill lead character's in support of the general narrative .... this gives the best episodes like red wedding. Once you base the show around the actual characters that option goes and it all becomes a bit cliched for me. Shame cos when it hit it's stride in season 2 to 4 it was a great watch    

Exactly this. When the writers ran out of material from the books and started writing their own, it started to go a bit off the boil.

Jon Snow being an heir to the Iron Throne was so poor. You could tell it was shoehorned in because everyone loves Jon Snow. The fact that everyone believes it because Bran said so and Sam read it in a book is extremely flimsey.

JS being the heir wasn't invented for the show.

It's in the books.

... I didn't say it was invented for the show. I said it was naff.