Don't touch the amp settings

Luminous

So I get to Fridays gig and while I'm plugging in my pedalboard the "engineer" comes up to me and awrns me not to touch the amp settings, when I ask why he tells me hes already set it up and soundchecked for me.

???????????????????????????????/

slacker

I hope you walked up to his mixing desk...

Cirrus

To be honest, I've found this level of ineptitude is quite common and different people have different perceptions of what each piece of gear is for and what their role is.

How I'd respond would of course depend on my mood, but I suspect I'd have either asked how he knows what kind of sound I want, cue discussion that leaves him feeling like either he's stupid or I'm a dick, or I'd have just said "ok" and set up my amp when he wasn't looking on the assumption that he's too stupid to tell the difference and if he's going to be incompetent he might as well be happy, either way he's probably going to fuck the sound up.

randomhandclaps

Cirrus said:

cue discussion that leaves him feeling like either he's stupid or I'm a dick, .

He's a 'sound guy' he always thinks your a dick anyhow.

Cirrus

At least he got one thing right then.

ICBM

I'd probably have asked him what kind of guitar he used and whether he plays anything like me, then simply adjusted it while he was looking.

It goes both ways - I'm happy to listen to requests to adjust stuff a bit (tone as well as volume) if the sound is causing a problem with something else, but I'm certainly not happy to have my sound set by someone else without any reference to how I play.

Maynehead

I'd be most annoyed at the fact that someone touched my stuff without my knowledge...

lustycourtier

Last weekend I had a festival engineer tell me to change EQ, which I found quite refreshing. He also thanked us post set for being the most reasonable band he had worked with for a long time, then told drummer to tighten snare to stand out in mix. We do 150 gigs or so a year so to have genuine tips like that was nice.

Cirrus

Waaay back when I did my first club gig the soundman said my tone had no mids and I felt like he was attacking me personally + got defensive. Of course, he was totally right. I had a shit amp and a scooped tone was my best effort to totally hide how bad it sounded  )

Really, I took it badly just because I was really nervous about gigging and felt uncomfortable with the entire situation.

stickyfiddle

I remember one gig where the "soundman" handed me a jack cable with the words "plug this into the back of your amp". Meaning, I assume, to plug into the lineout. On a Laney VC15. Which has no lineout. Being a nice little simple valve amp and not a Roland Cube.

I argued, and he suggested I could use a Marshall AVT50 instead "so he'd have better control of my sound". I concluded fairly swiftly I didn't want him in control of my sound...

Cirrus

@stickyfiddle did I tell you about the time we played the 'Introducing' show on BBC WM? I was expressedly told NOT to bring an amp because I wouldn't be able to use it, but not to worry because the sound tech had "specialist equipment" for me to use. So I turned up with my pedalboard and guitar, and the tech handed me a Behringer DI box, the one with the 4x12 cab simulation button.

Why, exactly, I couldn't have had an AC30 in the other room next to the full drum kit my drummer was allowed to use wasn't reasonably explained to me. Clearly 'control' and 'reducing spill' were considered more vital issues than 'Main melodic instrument in the band not sounding like a bag of wasp dicks'.

digitalscream

stickyfiddle said:

I remember one gig where the "soundman" handed me a jack cable with the words "plug this into the back of your amp". Meaning, I assume, to plug into the lineout. On a Laney VC15. Which has no lineout. Being a nice little simple valve amp and not a Roland Cube.

I argued, and he suggested I could use a Marshall AVT50 instead "so he'd have better control of my sound". I concluded fairly swiftly I didn't want him in control of my sound...

I've had similar before - except this sound guy unplugged the speaker cable from the back of my amp while it was still switched on, and I caught him just as he was about to plug his desk directly into the speaker output.

I switched the amp off and yanked the cable out of his hands from where I was standing, and (slightly impolitely, it must be said) enquired as to whether he had a few grand spare to replace my Soldano and a couple of grand more to replace the brand new desk he was about to fry. Cue him threatening to have me chucked out of the venue, banned from all future gigs in the area etc...so I called the venue owner over to ask who the hell this muppet was and explain the consequences of what he was about to do. Venue owner sent him packing and got their usual sound guy in to take over.

Fortunately, Soldano transformers are made of stern stuff, so no damage done.

Rowby1

@Luminous So what did you actually do? When you plugged in did it sound amazing because he was a genius?

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

I remember one gig where the "soundman" handed me a jack cable with the words "plug this into the back of your amp". Meaning, I assume, to plug into the lineout. On a Laney VC15. Which has no lineout.

You should probably have just plugged it into the extension speaker jack. It would have smoked the input channel on the desk and the amp would probably have been fine, at least unless it was fully cranked. (Even though I think the jack disconnects the internal speaker on those.)

digitalscream said:

I've had similar before - except this sound guy unplugged the speaker cable from the back of my amp while it was still switched on, and I caught him just as he was about to plug his desk directly into the speaker output.

Ditto… a Soldano would definitely survive that, but the desk probably wouldn't.

maltingsaudio

I have on occasion gaffered a guitarist amp after he/she has set up its sound to their requirements with their consent as they were known tweakers after sound check, and I do kind of understand where the sound engineer was coming from if it was a quick change over backline provided show.

I have a saying that musicians are either part of the problem or part of the solution to getting a good sound on a show, if they won't listen its going to be a problem, and do bare in  mind its never the bands fault if it sounds crap through the PA its always the engineers who either has cloth ears or is just un co operative and couldn't care. 

:P

I mixed a festival over the weekend 10 bands a day plus a couple of solo's for two days with 15 minute changeovers a fairly typical festival, Luckily enough most of the bands behaved themselves but the ones that were prats didn't sound as good as the ones who were part of the solution simply because they wouldn't listen and knew better... just saying

Tex Mexico

The number of times I've been soundchecking a band and asked the guitar player to cut some bass or turn up the mids just a tad, only to have the guy say "no man, this is my sound".

To be honest though, more frequently I had to tell guitarists that tuning up is something done before or after soundcheck but not during (especially if you don't even own a tuner), or that the distorted sound should not generally be far quieter than the clean sound, or that it's not my fault their amp feeds back uncontrollably when they turn the gain knob up all the way, or that it's a good idea to make sure that all your leads are actually working before you go to play the gig.

I did hundreds of Friday shows, three bands each, and every single show there would be at least one guy who didn't know how to use his gear. Some of them were grateful to be shown, but most just made a hash of it and then refused advice, stating proudly that the tinny, fizzy bullshit noise they were making was "their sound".

Eventually on principle I started turning those guys down in the mix. My rationale was that I was there to make the bands sound as good as possible. There were a number of bands who came off sounding like vocals over a drum solo.

slacker

I've done a lot of charity/volunteer/scout hut type gigs and here are some of the situations I've had to deal with...

On a reading gig with a tight stage, sound desk attendant sets up amp mic between amp and music stand. Me-where am I going to stand then? SDA-what?

Cellist turns to me and complains that she can only hear bass. I ask her to speak to the rocket scientist who put the cellist near a 300w bass stack. 

Soundman-I can only hear bass through the flute mic. Me-move the flautist away from the 300w bass stack. 

Soundman-Bass is too loud. Me- I wasnt playing. Soundman-if you were you'd be too loud. 

Soundman-band is too loud I cant hear the vocals. Band turn down. Soundman-band is too loud. Repeat etc until vocalist notices the SM58 has a huge dent in it. Unplugs mic and plugs in another 58. Whoooooooooo!!!

I've had a number of charity multi band gigs where the guitar was inaudible and got to told the fader was up. You might want to check the mute button...

I've had a number of soundmen tell me to turn down, so I've mimed it on the amp or turned down and up again. Perfect, thanks. 

However, I've played bass where the guitarist scooped the mids, or had way to much gain, or treble, or both. I've played guitar where the bassist was all fundamental, or didnt know how to use a graphic. One rehearsal I lent leads, stands etc, tuned up guitars because they didnt have a tuner, set up the sound cos the sound guy was missing and set up all the amps. I asked them if they wanted me to fix their car next. 

Drew_TNBD

maltingsaudio said:

I have on occasion gaffered a guitarist amp after he/she has set up its sound to their requirements with their consent as they were known tweakers after sound check, and I do kind of understand where the sound engineer was coming from if it was a quick change over backline provided show.

I have a saying that musicians are either part of the problem or part of the solution to getting a good sound on a show, if they won't listen its going to be a problem, and do bare in  mind its never the bands fault if it sounds crap through the PA its always the engineers who either has cloth ears or is just un co operative and couldn't care. 

:P

I mixed a festival over the weekend 10 bands a day plus a couple of solo's for two days with 15 minute changeovers a fairly typical festival, Luckily enough most of the bands behaved themselves but the ones that were prats didn't sound as good as the ones who were part of the solution simply because they wouldn't listen and knew better... just saying

Given that we're about to play one of our biggest appearances to date, what guidelines would you suggest for a festival?

maltingsaudio

@drew_fx Its quite simple really turn up at least an hour befor and check you have everything you need and know how it works and it is working, be nice to the crew then explain what you want to achieve and how your band sets itself up. If you work with the stage crew both sides will be prepared to help each other and reach a successful compromise. If you just march on say this is what's happening expect the stage guys to make a bigger effort with the band after you. Good luck witth the gig

Ché

Tex Mexico said:

.... "no man, this is my sound".

Oh my lord... seriously you do not understand how much that resonated with me. My guitarist friend plays a solid state Marshall with an SD-1 and ALWAYS uses the bridge pick up and it sounds terrible. Whenever I try (politely or otherwise) to steer him in a more sonically beefier and pleasing tonal direction those are the exact words I'm greeted with.

I've always said the sound guy is the middleman between you and the audience. If he/she says your tone needs altering, I take it that they're hearing more of what the audience will hear than I am so I'll follow suit. Most of the time however, I'm far more anal about my tone and the sound guy couldn't care less. I must adjust my amp atleast 4/5 times during a gig (when I don't have monitors, which is most of the time unfortunately).

IanSavage

Drew_fx said:

maltingsaudio said:

I have on occasion gaffered a guitarist amp after he/she has set up its sound to their requirements with their consent as they were known tweakers after sound check, and I do kind of understand where the sound engineer was coming from if it was a quick change over backline provided show.

I have a saying that musicians are either part of the problem or part of the solution to getting a good sound on a show, if they won't listen its going to be a problem, and do bare in  mind its never the bands fault if it sounds crap through the PA its always the engineers who either has cloth ears or is just un co operative and couldn't care. 

:P

I mixed a festival over the weekend 10 bands a day plus a couple of solo's for two days with 15 minute changeovers a fairly typical festival, Luckily enough most of the bands behaved themselves but the ones that were prats didn't sound as good as the ones who were part of the solution simply because they wouldn't listen and knew better... just saying

Given that we're about to play one of our biggest appearances to date, what guidelines would you suggest for a festival?

Do you have a tech sheet? I knocked this one up in about an hour for a band I was with ages ago and have done the same for every decent band I've been in since; they get sent ahead with the gig confirmation, again about a week before the show and I travelled with printed copies. If the sound guy gives two shits about his/her job they'll have a good idea of what you're about and what you need before you've even set up.

(yes, I've just realised myself that this one has two S/R microphones in the description :x )

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