Tuning Dilemma - Perfect 4ths vs Standard

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Hi everyone.
For the past year or so I've been tuned to Perfect 4ths (P4) as an experiment.
I love the intuitiveness of this tuning - learning lines is much easier as the fingerings are always the same so you can move them to other keys or other registers/string sets etc with no issues.

I love being able to play shapes and patterns all the way up the fingerboard with no need to change the shape as I cross strings and take the lick up or down an octave.

However, I miss being able to play nice chord voicings, and I miss the little guitar 'cliches' that make our instrument so awesome that are hard/impossible to do in P4 tuning.

P4 is amazing for single note playing, and it does make things simpler in a lot of ways.
I think the 'quirks' of standard tuning, that make you have to change shape (to play the same information) actually make the guitar more interesting to play, and open up more musical options - especially from a harmonic perspective.

It's a dilemma because I love shredding in P4, but prefer the musicality of Standard.

Anyone else got experience of this, want to chip in, pearls of wisdom etc please?



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Comments

  • What is it?
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  • citizen68citizen68 Frets: 172
    Top E & B are tuned to F & C

    Tried it on my acoustic for a while after listening to some Mateus Asato - don't think I could stick with it though
    Seemed like a good idea.....

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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Ah, you tune up? Ant Law is a great guitarist who does it - he tunes the 4 low strings down a semitone so he can still play in E.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • carloscarlos Frets: 3426
    Anyone else got experience of this, want to chip in, pearls of wisdom etc please?
    One of the great advantages of our instrument is that it's pretty much like a slide ruler. If you know the finger shapes for chords, arpeggios, etc you can move them up and down the neck and find what you need very quickly. I can't imagine playing a reed instrument and having to memorise how many sharps and flats are in, say... B major or what notes are in B major 7  and then almost instantly being able to play it. 4ths takes it another notch as you can move the patterns up and down the strings. So that sounds really good in principle but most if not all guitar-music we'll listen to will not have been written or played like that. I agree with you that standard tuning has more possibilities, especially because of the doubling of the top and bottom strings.

    What kind of music do you usually play? I think that's the most important question. Personally I've spent so much time playing around with standard that 4ths would be a big step backwards for little reward.
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  • Thanks everyone.
    I tune: EADGCF low to high.

    Wind players generally memorise a bunch of finger patterns too after enough practice. In the beginning stages they will think about the note names but after a long time it'll be a pattern to them just like on guitar.

    I've got a few ideas about what to do.

    One is to just pick a tuning and stick with it.

    Another is to just use both tunings and not worry about it. 

    Another would be to get some kind of device (like an EVH Dtuna) for the top strings that I can flip a lever and instantly go to 4ths and back - maybe a MIDI pickup and buy a Roland GR55???

    I play a mixture of stuff.
    Most of my time is spent on improvisation, and a lot of that is spent on single line stuff.
    However, I play in function bands and rock covers bands from time to time and occasionally find myself needing standard tuning.

    I want to get back into classical guitar which I used to do quite a lot of when I was younger - that'll be in standard.

    I reckon I'm gonna try using both tunings and see if it works out ok. Lots of players, especially in the acoustic world play in multiple tunings...
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    I was very intrigued by the concept after finding out that Alex Hutchings plays like that, but I've yet to try it.
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  • Yea man, Alex was kind of the reason I got into it.
    About 10-12 years ago I discovered a picking technique (we all know it as economy picking) which just worked for me.
    Then I discovered Frank Gambale and my mind was blown that he had already been doing this picking method for 20 years+ ahead of me!

    Then I bumped into Alex Hutchings at a guitar show and I saw he was using the same picking method as Frank (and many of his licks) and it got me thinking.

    After a private lesson with Alex it seemed that P4 tuning was the way forward for me. So, I procrastinated for about 4 years and decided finally to give P4 a go!

    It's so liberating to be able to fly up a pattern from low to high with the same fingering in every octave.
    I used to get infuriated with the guitar because I'd come up with a run, only to find it unplayable on certain string groups.

    I don't know.
    I've been thinking about making a blog of my journey with Perfect 4ths tuning - maybe even a book about how to make the transition, but until I feel that I've actually mastered it I don't think that's wise!
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  • never did Deirdre Cartwright any harm
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • I don't get it..? :)
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    edited August 2015
    After playing in standard tuning for 30 years, I decided to try playing P4 fourths tuning, that was about 5 years ago.

    I can play in standard tuning, but I usually prefer P4, but P4's not good for Chuck Berry type Rock'n'Roll riffs and open chords.

    I posted a thread on this forum in 2014:http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/211623/#Comment_211623
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    You can play the same shapes \ fingering across all strings in standard, at least EVH does


    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • Yes but the intervals will be different @Danny1969

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  • Just realized I thought @Phil_aka_Pip meant Deirdre Barlow hence my confusion! :/ 
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Yes but the intervals will be different @Danny1969

    Lol I know dude .... I do love his complete disregard to scale though when he does that, like the outro run of the Jump solo, same pattern from the A string to the E string regardless of the fact doing so puts a few "outside" notes in there
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    I'll been playing P4 for 5 years, so if you want any P4 advice just send PM.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • Thanks!
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    GuyBoden;743356" said:
    After playing in standard tuning for 30 years, I decided to try playing

    P4 fourths tuning, that was about 5 years ago.



    I can play in standard tuning, but I usually prefer P4, but P4's not good for Chuck Berry type Rock'n'Roll riffs and open chords.



    I posted a thread on this forum in 2014:http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/211623/#Comment_211623
    did it not mess with where you were expecting note to be and they weren't there..iff you know what i mean......after 30 years of standard tuning your fingers sort of know where to access certain notes ..and it will change with p4 so you maybe wont get the head to hand relationship you are used to

    im just curious really cos i have tried ot and that's what i found...I'm wondering if i should have stuck with it a while longer..
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    Barney said:
    GuyBoden;743356" said:
    After playing in standard tuning for 30 years, I decided to try playing

    P4 fourths tuning, that was about 5 years ago.



    I can play in standard tuning, but I usually prefer P4, but P4's not good for Chuck Berry type Rock'n'Roll riffs and open chords.



    I posted a thread on this forum in 2014:http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/211623/#Comment_211623
    did it not mess with where you were expecting note to be and they weren't there..iff you know what i mean......after 30 years of standard tuning your fingers sort of know where to access certain notes ..and it will change with p4 so you maybe wont get the head to hand relationship you are used to

    im just curious really cos i have tried ot and that's what i found...I'm wondering if i should have stuck with it a while longer..
    You've got to spend a lot of time learning the notes on the fretboard, creating a map of the whole fretboard in common scales. You can rely on patterns and licks, but IMHO you'll never know the fretboard.

    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    axisus said:
    I was very intrigued by the concept after finding out that Alex Hutchings plays like that, but I've yet to try it.
    last time I was chatting with Alex he was showing me how he goes about things with this tuning..
    he was quick to point out that as with all things, there are strengths and weaknesses..
    he like that tuning because of the uniformity it brings to scale fingerings
    but pointed out that some chord fingerings were challenging at first.. but over time you end up finding alternatives that you wouldn't generally go for with standard tuning and are pretty cool..
    in a sense this is like any other type of tuning.. in drop-x tunings certain chords fingerings are out of the question, but some new and very interesting alternatives show up..
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • Danny1969 said:
    Yes but the intervals will be different @Danny1969

    Lol I know dude .... I do love his complete disregard to scale though when he does that, like the outro run of the Jump solo, same pattern from the A string to the E string regardless of the fact doing so puts a few "outside" notes in there
    There's a lot to be said for that! :)
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