Good mic for a quiet singer

jonnygreentrees

Having some issues with our singer being too quiet when we play live!

We normally use whatever vocal mic the venue gives us, is there a mic he could buy which would help make the vocals louder and also not lose so much when he backs off the mic?

lustycourtier

You want a Phantom Powered mic.

steamabacus

I think a more sensitive mic (such as a condenser) is only going to lead you into feedback problems (especially if it's quite a noisy band). There really is no substitute for good vocal technique - get him to a vocal coach to address his specific issues. There's no shame in it, it's just the equivalent of going to the gym to get fit.

EricTheWeary

One of those over lip ones football commentators use?

It's his instrument so it's a bit crazy not having his own mic ( and having caught a nasty throat infection off a shared use mic even though I just do terrible BVs I like my own mic! ), going to a decent shop and discussing the different characteristics within his budget would be a good idea. Reasonable mics for live vocals aren't a fortune and will give him much greater control and less chance of a sore throat.

Jalapeno

something condenser and Sennhieser.

BilliBob

Heil pr35, when our lead singer got one, had to turn him way down on the desk.  Very powerful and awesome sounding mic.  Have a look at reviews etc.

Cirrus

I'd say condenser or dynamic is irrelevant here. The main problem with a quiet singer is gain-before-feedback; by the time the mic is turned up enough to hear the singer, the mic is feeding back. This is a problem which can only be solved in two ways;

1. Make the source louder. This is the obvious solution, if your singer is too quiet for typical mic in a live environment then he's not performing well enough, and the only way to improve in the long run is to address that.

2. Chosing a mic with good feedback rejection - i.e. a very tight, hypercardioid polar pattern so that it's only picking up sound coming from directly in front of it. This will help you turn the mic up more before feedback starts. However, the singer won't be able to move the mic - it'll need to be set up so that the PA speakers and monitor speakers are positioned in the low sensitivity area, 120-150 degrees off axis, and there's nothing directly behind the mic as they have a small real lobe;

As for not losing volume when he backs off the mic, there's nothing you can do there really. It's just physics - sound propagates following the inverse square law, the further from the source the mic is the less it will pick up.

EricTheWeary

Yes, the ability to lose volume as you back off the mic is incorporated into good technique. I was watching some Eric Clapton stuff and I noticed how much he used distance from the mic to control his volume. So, for example, backing way off during shouty bits so they sounded shouty without booming out. Clearly better singers than Clappo out there but it's an example of however much expensive gear you have, however good your sound people you still need basic mic technique. 

Danny1969

The thing with live sound on a smallish stage  is your vocal mic is also a drum overhead mic whever you like it or not .... so all you can do is get a higher wanted vocal to unwanted spill by either good vocal technique or by making everything else quieter. Plexi shields round the drums, guitar cabs and bass cabs on lowish volume etc. 

Condenser mic would be a disaster, I would try something like a Senn 945 as I've had good results from them with quiet mousey singers compared to a 58 in terms of getting the vocal over the music

ICBM

I had exactly this problem with a quiet female singer so I tried a few mics with better sensitivity and top-end response - and all she got was worse feedback.

The solution was an SM58 and learning to use it better. But get your own, as EricTheWeary said - they're not expensive. (But watch out for fakes...)

This also has the great advantage that every sound engineer in the world should be familiar with the sound of one.

slacker

Looking at the adverts the SM58 Beta is supposed to be better for rejecting spill and feedback, anyone used it?

Cirrus

I've used them before. Yes, the Beta 58 is hypercardioid, while the SM58 is cardioid. It's also a bit clearer sounding - cleaner and brighter.

Drew_TNBD

This all sounds like poor technique to be honest.

Cirrus

Drew_fx said:

This all sounds like poor technique to be honest.

Already covered Drewski, but wisdom for condensing it down.

randomhandclaps

Drew_fx said:

This all sounds like poor technique to be honest.

It most certainly is I'm afraid. 

Completely forget a condenser mic - that way lays disaster.  What mic are the venue giving you?

@ICBM has probably already given you the answer -

ICBM said:

The solution was an SM58 and learning to use it better.

monquixote

I think the Beta 58 has slightly better rejection so that would probably be the pick.

Sensitivity isn't the issue because you can always turn it up. It's the ratio of the level of the singer to the background noise (drums etc) which leads to feedback. 

Make sure they have good mic technique. You should be right on the mic when you are singing which also means you get a bit more bass (good if your singer has a bit of a weedy voice).

http://blog.shure.com/sm58-facts-vs-fiction-part-4/

Grunfeld

slacker said:

Looking at the adverts the SM58 Beta is supposed to be better for rejecting spill and feedback, anyone used it?

Yep, I use one of these for vocals.  Very tight pattern so you've got to sing right into it and as has been said, don't have a monitor right up its arse because the pattern means it would pick that up too.  But I've not had any problems with it.  Nice and loud and no problems with feedback.

slacker

Thanks

octatonic

You can't really gig with a condenser mic without massive feedback and/or irritated sound guy.

Sort out the vocal technique first- you can't polish a turd.

Bono records with a Beta-58 (so he can hold it in his hand)- they are excellent vocal miss for live.

EricTheWeary

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/449658776543830016/VzhnevTD.jpeg No one has followed me up on this but what's wrong with that look? Rock and or Roll! \m/

paulads

i'm a fan of the beta-58...

i'm a fairly quiet/rubbish singer and i found a noticeable improvement over the sm-58 i'd previously used