Custom kit thoughts

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DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
edited December 2015 in Made in the UK tFB Trader
Hi i,m Darren and have a few things planned for next year and would like any suggestions and comments please, my aim is to bridge a gap between a full custom build.These are still made by hand but you have the option to set up and finish yourself, all the donkey work is done for you, these are not a cheap kit.
I've been building for the last 5 years and started at merton college, i was on the same course with Tom from feline.
Anyway what i thought would be nice if i start doing good kits people can spec and put together themselves or have a full build.
I'm into vintage stuff so i will be offering proper spec 59 kits plus a 56 and 56 custom, all measurements are from a vintage 56 and have been verified by me through a vintage dealer and 2 56's, these aren't for everyone but if i want a 59 spec i want it right, feel free to ask anything.
Moving on i thought i'd do kits like single and dc juniors, reverse firebird and set neck tele and strat.
I don't like bolt ons so everything is set neck, i don't like bolts in the back.
I do nitro finishing with aniline dies and uv resistent.
I also work with another guy Paul who was at college with us and i do all his finishig too.
Here is a few pics of what i've done at college and after, i'll post some more stuff up as i go along.
I'll also have some demo guitars to play and some you tube clips coming up.

Cheers.

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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    Here's a 59 i'm just finishing still needs fading and ageing.
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  • JookyjrJookyjr Frets: 870
    Hi Darren & welcome.

    Sounds brilliant, I think a lot of people would fancy a go at a kit if they didn't immediately assume they would be throwing most of the parts away/the wood is good quality etc.

    I guess the hard part is that half the people will want a moody logo and see it as a cheap way of getting a Gibson, and the ones that would like to buy a quality UK built guitar may be put off by the fact that it has the Big-G styling (headstock etc.) and no identity of it's own/your own.

    Personally, I'd rather see you going the Feline route and putting your own brand on it and improving on the 'formula'. It's probably going to take longer to sell things to start with but in the long run wherever you get will be your own, and you've obviously got talent, so why be the ghost-writer?

    Hope it goes well anyway and seriously not knocking you at all, I'd love to give that LP a blast for sure :D



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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    edited December 2015 tFB Trader
    These are nothing like a g logo, actually mine is blank at the moment, couldn't decide what to call her, I thought crap might be funny, short for creative research for acoustic pleasure. I've had a pro play one of mine and it was better than his main gigging guitars, navigators which are one of the best mass produced out there and better than you know who. When it comes to proper spec I've got a list as long as my that annoys the he'll out of me and how much. Why do you think the mij guitars are still so popular and better imo. As I said these are not for everybody and I've got other stuff planned. I love carved tops so there'll be a few of them, I thinking about a carved top dc junior with 2 f holes, 2 p90's, could be good.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    I thought i'd go through a few ideas and a few ramblings, feel fee to say what you think.
    One of the reasons i did my own personal 59 style is to find out if new honduran is as good as old honduran or old african for that matter, i'm into tone testing and rather than read about it i like to find out for myself, plan is to build 3 or 4 that people can try with honduran, african and the mysterious old growth, fretboards will be madagascan, amazon and brazilian.
    I weigh all my wood before and after cutting so i know what a final weight will roughly be and i aim for around 8.5lb for a 59 style.

    The idea with a custom kit is to pick and choose what wood for body and neck, different fretboards, if you wanted a different scale on say a junior style not a problem, hot hide glue.
    i'll have a few things people can try limba and mahogany junior style, you might want a maple neck, you get the idea, any sugestions on pickup choice would be good, for a reverse firebird style i was thinking 2 p90's but a hss style might be good to.

    I think most people want something familiar but also something they can't get, binding and or purfling on a junior or tele, bound fretboards etc.


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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    Here's a few things kicking around.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    2 fole teles both mahogany body and maple neck one with a maple cap one with a walnut cap, same controls as a lp, built by Paul and finished by me, i didn't take pics of them fully done.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    lp style with a spectacular mahogany body, we will never see this stuff again, it's old wood i know that, it's got a black walnut cap built by Paul.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    Here is an archtop built by Paul, i'll be finishing it in the new year, probably a nitro amber burst,It is a work of art.
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  • Whatever you do, you need to have the option of a thinline jazzmaster.
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 27345
    Hi i,m Darren and have a few things planned for next year and would like any suggestions and comments please, my aim is to bridge a gap between a full custom build.These are still made by hand but you have the option to set up and finish yourself, all the donkey work is done for you, these are not a cheap kit.

    Hello Darren

    There's certainly some interesting pieces of timber in those posts - very pretty woods - and looks like some quality workmanship going into the builds & finishing too.

    Am I right in thinking that your "kits" would actually be finished guitars save for the hardware & set-up, rather than the completely build-it-yourself kits that seem to be the only other option on the market today?

    I'd guess that your main challenge will be making that work financially - ie you've got to price it sufficiently high to cover all your work and the timbers, but sufficiently low to compete against similar quality branded/completed instruments.  That's probably going to be the toughest part of the business - finding that gap/niche and making it big enough to sustain your business.

    But thanks for sharing here, and hope this works out for you ... will be watching for updates!
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    edited December 2015 tFB Trader
    Thanks for the reply.
    All this stuff are just ideas really, I can do fully built and ready to finish, or a kit in parts you glue together, set up etc and maybe send back to me for a nitro finish, I just think there isn't anything over here like precision guitar kits, although mine are built by hand and not cnc'd so cost is higher but wood will be better.

    Also you could choose honduran over african for mahogany but it's more expensive.

    I haven't worked out costs yet but it'll be alot lower than a full on custom build.

    The other thing I might do is fully built and aged like a tv yellow aged jr style, it all depends on what you want.

    If people can post up ideas of what they want and how much work they want to do if any, what do you guys think is a reasonable amount to charge or prepared to pay.

    Thanks.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    olafgarten;913161" said:
    Whatever you do, you need to have the option of a thinline jazzmaster.
    I'm not a fender guy but I like that and could also see a full carved top would be nice, I don't do bolt ons so a set neck, also It would be in the style of rather than a copy.

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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 2744
    I like the idea of quality parts ready to be assembled and finished.   I'm curious why you only want to do set necks though - I would think they are harder to assemble compared to bolt on - which I guess is the reason to lots of strats and tele partscasters. 
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 27345
    John_P said:
    I'm curious why you only want to do set necks though - I would think they are harder to assemble compared to bolt on - which I guess is the reason to lots of strats and tele partscasters. 
    I think you're right - set necks need glue and lots of clamps, whereas set necks just need 4 screws and a screwdriver.


    All this stuff are just ideas really,
    We've given this advice to other people who've turned up here with ideas ... get some solid, informed, experienced, business advice behind you.

    Lots of great craftsmen have tried to develop their skills into guitar related businesses, but not so many have succeeded.  And not because they didn't have the luthiery skills.

    Work out what your market is, what the margins could be, and what the volumes might be.  And then does that pay you a wage, does it cover the costs of your investment in tools & machinery, etc.

    I'm not aware of anyone in the UK (as opposed to the US) serving the higher-end kit market, so maybe there's an untapped market there.  Or maybe it's untapped because it doesn't exist.  Market research is your friend (and this is a good place to do it).  I guess you'll be up against the lower end of the custom build market rather than the current kit options (which are £100ish MIC tat AFAIK), so I'd assume your kit prices would have to be sub £1k (incl the cost of hardware, finishing, etc) - but again, wider market research is your friend rather than my opinion!


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  • JookyjrJookyjr Frets: 870
    Some really good advice there Darren - what you've done so far looks brilliant, but getting the business side sorted to sustain it all is more important than questions over bolt-on or set necks. No point pitching sub £1K if it costs you £2K to build them etc.

    Hope it goes well though :)

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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
    edited December 2015 tFB Trader
    TTony;913850" said:
    John_P said:

    I'm curious why you only want to do set necks though - I would think they are harder to assemble compared to bolt on - which I guess is the reason to lots of strats and tele partscasters. 





    I think you're right - set necks need glue and lots of clamps, whereas set necks just need 4 screws and a screwdriver.






    customkits said:All this stuff are just ideas really,





    We've given this advice to other people who've turned up here with ideas ... get some solid, informed, experienced, business advice behind you.

    Lots of great craftsmen have tried to develop their skills into guitar related businesses, but not so many have succeeded.  And not because they didn't have the luthiery skills.

    Work out what your market is, what the margins could be, and what the volumes might be.  And then does that pay you a wage, does it cover the costs of your investment in tools & machinery, etc.

    I'm not aware of anyone in the UK (as opposed to the US) serving the higher-end kit market, so maybe there's an untapped market there.  Or maybe it's untapped because it doesn't exist.  Market research is your friend (and this is a good place to do it).  I guess you'll be up against the lower end of the custom build market rather than the current kit options (which are £100ish MIC tat AFAIK), so I'd assume your kit prices would have to be sub £1k (incl the cost of hardware, finishing, etc) - but again, wider market research is your friend rather than my opinion!
    Why do you think I'm asking for opinions, so I can gauge if it's worth it.
    If you take say a feline junior at £1600 bottom of the range, I would think if I can get in the 1k range that would be good for a fully built but unfinished guitar, full carved top is more though plus you can have me do a nitro finish for extra, I'll probably be doing ageing if wanted, there's alot more to come yet.
    You also get to pick the wood and I'll give a rough final weight, I only use really good wood.

    I'm not interested in set ups but I might do nitro finishes for people, alot depends on how busy things get.

    The reason for doing set necks is everybody does a bolt on, I'm using an overhead router so doing set necks is ok for me, I think a long tenon set neck is one of the best joints too, I don't like seeing bolts from a finishing point of view, they're ugly to me.

    I don't really like strats but Paul's got a set neck one he's doing and I really like it, I'll get some pics up.

    I'm interested in offering a high end alternative to the full custom build.

    Cheers.



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  • OilCityPickupsOilCityPickups Frets: 9986
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    Personally I would like to see the neck heel area of the 'Tele' variant a lot more blended in. To my sensibilities there is little point in a set neck on a Tele or Strat type guitar without gaining a smoother neck body transition.
    Professional pickup winder, horse-testpilot and recovering Chocolate Hobnob addict.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    TheGuitarWeasel;913910" said:
    Personally I would like to see the neck heel area of the 'Tele' variant a lot more blended in. To my sensibilities there is little point in a set neck on a Tele or Strat type guitar without gaining a
    smoother neck body transition.
    Hi Ash, I had a conversation with you about doing kits and pickups etc a while back.

    Once I've got some stuff out the way I'll be talking to you again.
    I've got a limba tele body cut out so doing something like that to try is no problem, I've never been keen on single coils either so might put p90's in it, it's having a burst too, I was thinking about carved top tele's.

    Any other suggestions welcome.

    Cheers Darren.


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  • BigMonkaBigMonka Frets: 1763
    You've certainly got a great eye for picking attractive bits of wood, some of those are stunning! All the best with the new business.
    Always be yourself! Unless you can be Batman, in which case always be Batman.
    My boss told me "dress for the job you want, not the job you have"... now I'm sat in a disciplinary meeting dressed as Batman.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 3261
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    BigMonka;914028" said:
    You've certainly got a great eye for picking attractive bits of wood, some of those are stunning! All the best with the new business.
    Thanks, we do spend alot of time sourcing good wood.


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