Strict alternate picking when speed picking? Please help!

xtedmanzie

Sorry for the long question!

I'm trying to knuckle down and learn some scales across the neck and basically get faster with greater accuracy. I found this old Vinnie Moore vid where he runs through basic chromatic exercises (see link below) which I've had a go at. He does a chromatic exercise with three fingers which you start on the first fret, go up and down the 'scale', move up a half step and repeat. For example, do this on the first fret: 

E string 1, 2, 3 (up down up)

A string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

D string 1, 2, 3 (up down up)

G string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

B string 1, 2, 3 (up down up)

E string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

Vinnie is STRICT that you must play alternate! He makes a big thing about it. 

My alternate picking is pretty good, certainly not the fastest, but I realised that I naturally do this:

E string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

A string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

D string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

G string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

B string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

E string 1, 2, 3 (down up down)

Kind of sweeping between strings if you know what I mean.

What do you think? Do I need to change my technique in order to improve.

octatonic

You play an economy picking technique.

It has a different sound to alternate picking- smoother, but not as smooth as legato.

There is no real speed advantage to one or the other- some folks specialise in one type which seems to make them faster in that technique.

Speed is a byproduct of accuracy- take care of the accuracy and the speed will come.

xtedmanzie

octatonic said:

You play an economy picking technique.

It has a different sound to alternate picking- smoother, but not as smooth as legato.

There is no real speed advantage to one or the other- some folks specialise in one type which seems to make them faster in that technique.

Speed is a byproduct of accuracy- take care of the accuracy and the speed will come.

Ah ok, thanks.

In that case would you suggest I do Vinnie's exercises with economy picking or would it benefit to learn strict alternate? I'm concerned I'd end up ballsing up my technique if I practice strict alternate...!

[edit] - Sorry, I see there is a lot of discussion on this on various forums. I never knew the name of my picking style, so today I have learn't something!

earwighoney

I'm in agreement with Octatonic, speed comes with practise.  

If you have a metronome, then play the exercise at a Low BPM then gradually build it up. 

octatonic

tedmanzie said:

octatonic said:

You play an economy picking technique.

It has a different sound to alternate picking- smoother, but not as smooth as legato.

There is no real speed advantage to one or the other- some folks specialise in one type which seems to make them faster in that technique.

Speed is a byproduct of accuracy- take care of the accuracy and the speed will come.

Ah ok, thanks.

In that case would you suggest I do Vinnie's exercises with economy picking or would it benefit to learn strict alternate? I'm concerned I'd end up ballsing up my technique if I practice strict alternate...!

[edit] - Sorry, I see there is a lot of discussion on this on various forums. I never knew the name of my picking style, so today I have learn't something!

How can I can explain it?

The ability to skip doesn't affect your ability to run.

You could practice skipping a whole lot and still be able to run.

If you want to be the best skipper in the world, practice skipping.

Understand that the time you spend running and not skipping will negatively impact you skipping speed, not because your technique will get confused, but because more time running is less time spent skipping.

What I'm saying is you can learn either or both- it is up to you. 

Treat them as discrete disciplines and practice them intentionally.

However, don't discount your 'natural' approach.

My technique is based around hybrid picking- I was never taught it, I just figured it out.

I can hybrid pick as fast as most folks can alternate pick but I've worked on it a hell of a lot because it feels natural.

I still practice economy, sweeping, alternate etc- but my natural state is to hybrid pick stuff.

When we learn new techniques we need to make sure it is informed by what we want to achieve musically.

If you have a need to use alternate picking then learn it.

(Sorry if that sounds preachy- I just can't think of another way to phrase it).

ElectroDan

I agree with Octotonic,

The more tools you have at your disposal the better equipped you will be to tackle different scenario's that arise. Economy won't always be the best option for a lick or phrase, and being able to pick Alternately is definitely going to be of value to you.

I started strict alternate picking years ago (I actually had the vid you're using), but have since incorporated legato, hybrid, economy sweeps and I'm currently working on the two way pick slanting shown in some of Troy Grady's vid's.

It's always a work in progress and that's what keeps it interesting.

Incidentally, you may want to watch some Frank Gambale vids. "Monster Licks and Speed Picking", springs to mind. He is a master of Economy picking and you'll surely benefit from seeing how he incorporates it.

Roland

Also remember that speed is not the ultimate goal, it's just allows you to play things quickly when you need to. It's worth learning both picking patterns so that you know what they feel and sound like. When it comes to actually playing you can pull either or both out of your bag of tricks to suit the music.

xtedmanzie

Good advice, thanks everyone

Clarky

octatonic said:

You play an economy picking technique.

It has a different sound to alternate picking- smoother, but not as smooth as legato.

There is no real speed advantage to one or the other- some folks specialise in one type which seems to make them faster in that technique.

Speed is a byproduct of accuracy- take care of the accuracy and the speed will come.

I think it depends upon the lick.. some seem to lend themselves better to alt picking and others to economy..

I use both methods a great deal and switch between them even within licks

kinda like 'one size don't quite fit all, so get all the colours and all the sizes'.. lmao..

this being the case, I deliberately practice both methods

musteatbrain

Agree. The more ways of picking you master the better.

viz

octatonic said:

You play an economy picking technique.

It has a different sound to alternate picking- smoother, but not as smooth as legato.

There is no real speed advantage to one or the other- some folks specialise in one type which seems to make them faster in that technique.

Speed is a byproduct of accuracy- take care of the accuracy and the speed will come.

yes. have a look at Frank Gambale doing similar exercises.

stratman3142

To emphasise the point that it's good to work on both techniques. Frank Gambale is noted for his sweep picking and economy picking, but he's also an excellent alternate picker. I have his Chop Builder Ultimate Guitar Workout video.

Here's a clip of his alternate picking. Unfortunately the way it's presented is pretty hilarious now but, if you can see through that, the actual playing is outstanding. It's not hyper fast but his timing/accuracy is spot on, which is what counts for me. It's mechanical but they're just exercises.



...and of course his remarkable sweep/economy picking

octatonic

Clarky said:

octatonic said:

You play an economy picking technique.

It has a different sound to alternate picking- smoother, but not as smooth as legato.

There is no real speed advantage to one or the other- some folks specialise in one type which seems to make them faster in that technique.

Speed is a byproduct of accuracy- take care of the accuracy and the speed will come.

I think it depends upon the lick.. some seem to lend themselves better to alt picking and others to economy..

I use both methods a great deal and switch between them even within licks

kinda like 'one size don't quite fit all, so get all the colours and all the sizes'.. lmao..

this being the case, I deliberately practice both methods

At an elite level, I agree.

For mere mortals I don't see much that could couldn't execute with either economy or alternate- there will be a bit of a sound difference but there should be no problem with execution.

xtedmanzie

stratman3142 said:

Unfortunately the way it's presented is pretty hilarious now

Crikey! You can say that again

stratman3142

tedmanzie said:

stratman3142 said:

Unfortunately the way it's presented is pretty hilarious now

Crikey! You can say that again

Unfortunately the way it's presented is pretty hilarious now


Sorry, old corny joke - couldn't resist