How's your timing, and how do you practice it?

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Timing is such a pain in the arse - I feel like it's the key difference between an okay player and a great player. I love watching guys who can sit in the groove and wheel off licks that just work. Then I try and do it and it all goes horribly wrong. Even when recording, sometimes I can't believe how out of time I am even though, when playing, I was sure I was on the beat!

So I've been spending some time recently trying to improve my timing. It was never something I worked on when I started so I think I've bred a bad habit. But I'm working on it!

There's the obvious playing scales with a metronome and such, but what do you guys find works best when working on your timing? Simple stuff like playing 4th/8th/16th notes with a metronome, or something more interesting like jamming with a click or drum machine? I'd be very intrigued to hear what gets the best results.
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    I've never used a metronome.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26463
    My timing is terrible. However, given that I'm usually the one in charge of the band/loose collection of musicians, I mitigate it by simply expecting them to adjust to my timing.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    If you can discipline yourself to playing quavers then semiquavers to the crotchet tick of a metronome then well done & fair play to you. I think that if you can get a drum box and program some rhythms in, it helps you to internalise various beats as you play to them, partly because you went to the trouble of programming the box to start with so you know mentally what it is doing (eg an accent on every 3rd semiquaver in a bar of 4/4) and then you learn to sync your playing with it. By programming I mean step-programming, not trying to hit a drum button on the relevant beat, because you won't program the box correctly if you can't already do that.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited May 2016
    I've done most of my playing to a metronome or along with records.
    Metronome clicking on 2 & 4 is my preferred approach- it gives me the ability to play around with the click.

    Another approach is to use a double definition grid- (as in if you are playing 8ths then have a click that counts 16ths. 
    I do the more with drumming than guitar but it can help with guitar as well.

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  • SambostarSambostar Frets: 8745
    edited May 2016

    You want to play behind or in front of the beat to a degree, as do the guitarists I like, otherwise what is the point.  Depends on the style though I guess.  I use my leg and head, also playing different alternative patterns of 2's, 3's 4's, 6's etc. kind of ingrains timing and phrasing into your head, so when you play something fast you know how it relates without having to fall back on specific patterns.  That really helped me anyway, more in terms of phrasing than timing, but then I'm not a big fan of modern metal and such that requires micrometre precision and I prefer to feel it and hook back in on the fourth bar.

    If I had a metronome I'd use it as a drum machine and play off to it anyway.  I don't think I could sit and practice with it.  Although the former is probably what it is about anyway.  I think it seeps in eventually. 

    Singing also helps you subconsciously develop it so you don't have to think about it, because you are singing a different notes to what you are playing, often the melody is completely different to the rhythm, so to that degree it's like playing a drum kit.  My timing goes way off if I try and sing, until I have lots of beer.  I'm not that good at singing though either, so it evens out.

    Finger picking with a bassline helps you make sense of it too.

    For high precision modern metal stuff that is fairly boring, I think practice and a metronome is probably in order, but most of it is about rhythms rather than timing.

    Obviously playing along to records for 15 years helps develop your ears a lot too.  If you've never done that, then it better to start there than a metronome as you'll learn to feel it better as everyone's timing varies in real life.

    Backdoor Children Of The Sock
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    Tap your foot - it's a really good way of improving your timing.
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1133
    Foot tapping, and finding a body rhythm are always a good move, mixing that with internalising the rhythm as much as possible too.

    ~ ~ ~ ~

    Maybe try working through some of the stuff in this thread ?

    Approach it with an open mind, and your brain in gear though.    :-/


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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    Behind, on and ahead of the beat differs for what style you play though, no?
    I mainly play to records and think I have a decent sense of timing. 
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  • SambostarSambostar Frets: 8745
    Yeah probably.  I have a decent sense of timing but easily get confused by complicated rhythms.
    Backdoor Children Of The Sock
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5700
    With a metronome.
    Get used to 1, 2, 3, 4 etc notes per click, at different speeds.

    Also play to a record/backing track after the metronome practise to help with the feeling of playing music, rather than exercises.


    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    Best way to get great timing? Learn how to play and how to program drums properly. It gives you a great understanding of rhythm.

    another thing is to get your strumming/picking hand to continuously play the over.riding beat in the music . so either 8th, tripplets or 16ths. Just hit when you need to hit and miss when you need to miss.

    something that can help understand complex rhythms is to double the tempo and halve the beat. So 16ths at 80bpm become 8ths at 160bpm. I found 8ths much easier to get my head around, but doing this saw how simple 16ths really were.. now quite happy reading/playing both...


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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    My timing is awful, because I tend to play by myself and I come from a background of classical piano where you drag the timing around all over the place for effect. However for the same reasons, it actually kind of works for me as I tend to only play solo, and the same pulling about of tempo works in that way as I'm only accompanying myself and I can keep up. Those of you who may have heard my Fretboard Challenge entries in the past will definitely have heard some of my timing issues, however I prefer to think of myself as a rhythm renegade and I therefore enjoy leaving my mistakes in as part of the "character"...a bit like the guitarist that won't turn down his ice pick trebly sound because that's "his sound, man"

    Totally different when I try to play along to stuff...without a strict practising regime it's really easily to subconsciously slow down for the harder bits, so when I play along to my created backing tracks I struggle and really have to work at getting back in time properly.  I would recommend using drum loops or back tracks though rather than a metronome, unless robotic metronomic playing is part of your style of playing (it's how I learnt Strokes songs for example to get that robotic quaver chord bashing as even as possible). Reason being you'll feel the accents of the beats much more, it'll sound less rigid and more natural, so that you improve your playing relative to the groove rather than so strictly to the beat. You'll also get better at pulling back into time if your epic solo loses its beat ever so slightly :)
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26754
    edited May 2016
    I don't practise timing these days, and never really have on guitar, but that's informed by a decade or so of various other music lessons for clarinet, piano and particularly jazz stuff on sax along these lines (granted with friendlier teachers!)


    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7734
    viz said:
    Tap your foot - it's a really good way of improving your timing.
    Nope, if your internal timing is not accurate your foot will only give you the illusion that you are in time. 
    A metronome works wonders. I'm not one for always pushing formal learning, but learning the modes & using a metronome from time to time are essential. 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    edited May 2016
    I think that you have to feel timing. It needs to become a sense, and then it takes time to hone your awareness of the pocket - are you in front, or behind? And more importantly, what is the music asking you to do?

    There are lots of people who don't have that sense and can't feel what "right" is. A lot of it comes down to practice in the appropriate setting - eg recording, where you can hear exactly what's right and wrong and hopefully adjust your playing for another take, or in an ensemble; gig or practice settings, where you can hit on a groove and suddenly *get* on some instinctual level what good timing is, and how it feels physically and mentally when you're locked in to other players.

    There's a feedback loop of ears, brain, the physical inertia of your body and the feel of your instrument that takes time to develop, I suppose.

    Personally, from recording I've learned that I need to concentrate to be in time, though when I play live I've found that I become more hyper aware of timekeeping and it's easier to feel my way into the groove with the other players.
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  • shrinkwrapshrinkwrap Frets: 512
    edited May 2016
    Any decent online lessons to practise the behind/ahead of the beat bit?
    I can do it sometimes but really don't have any control over it - either it happens or it doesn't.
    (this is for when playing with my mates - one of them has perfect on the beat timing but he's not good at relaxing it)
    Any tips?

    I can get a groove better on bass, even though I don't play bass much now.. why's that?
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    One thing I've learned over the years, is that recording your performances reveals whether your time is really up to snuff, or not.

    I agree with @Cirrus that delevoping a 'feel' for the 'pocket' takes a lot of work. Eventually it becomes innate - seemingly requiring no conscious thought.

    Playing along to varied backing tracks and working with a great rhythm section all help hone your skill.
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  • CatthanCatthan Frets: 355
    edited May 2016
    I have very recently discovered that (at least for me) good pocket, ie locking in with others and having an overall good feel for time when playing rhythm is diff. than playing lines with good time. 
    Practicing soloing - improv with backing tracks ONLY can do more harm than good in that aspect. 

    Practicing with the click ONLY is what helps me build good time in my soloing. 
    Plus, due to the lack of a backing track I'm forced to track the changes a bit which generally enhances the harmonic content of the solo so I'm killing 2 birds with 1 stone. 
    I am not talking about practicing licks and patterns to get them under my fingers starting from low BPM and building up; that's different.
    (It obviously helps maintain time consistency within, say a lick, but how you place that lick in the bar, how you connect it with other phrases before and after, how you apply syncopation and when and how you accent notes against the click and underlying harmony are somehow a different matter and perhaps the next step)

    I'm talking about longer line playing throughout a progression. 
    This then helps my rhythm playing too and exercises my feel of time as I can't rely on others. 

    So, yeah, click on 2 and 4 with high resolution (more subdivisions) if necessary and no backing track is good for me. 

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  • pintspillerpintspiller Frets: 994
    if you practise along to records (mp3, cd, youtube, or whatever floats your boat), just keep practising. i remember i used to prefer to play one song non-stop for hours, rather than play along to the entire side of the album. 

    it used to drive my sister mad. she particularly remembers me playing along to boris the spider. i guess that must have been one of the first i learned. or maybe she just hated it from get go. certainly hated it after. lol.
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  • newi123newi123 Frets: 850
    I agree that recording yourself is essential - you may think you have it nailed but when you listen back you may not! :-)

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