Hot Rod Deluxe Mods - anyone tried it?

colourofsound

And i don't mean swapping out the valves and speaker - already done that! I love my HRD and am just trying to get as much out of it as possible.

Currently use it as a pedal platform, so channel 1 is king here.

So has anyone had the mods to the board done? Like the Fromel Electronics kit and so on. Does it make a difference? And is it worth it?

As an aside, i'd like to invest in one of those thingies that lets me dime the pre-amp but keep the volume low. Any suggestions? I was planning on getting a Bassbreaker 18/30 to replace my HRD for this reason but no spring reverb is a deal breaker i'm afraid!

Anyway - enough rambling. Talk to me about HRD mods!

Danny1969

I've done the Fromel mods for a customers HRD. I played the amp before and after and to be honest most of the mods aren't worth it IMHO. Swapping the volume pot obviously makes a difference as the kit one has an audio taper so it's then more controllable. I didn't think the tone stack mod did a lot, or the reservoir caps. Changing the input jacks seemed a bit pointless as there wasn't anything wrong with the factory ones. The larger wattage resistors that drop the volts for the op amps might be a worth while swap but I prefer my own mod which is mount the things off the board completely. The reverb mod makes a difference to the way the amount comes in but doesn't (can't ) improve it in any way

If you do go for the mods then use a good tech of your not very experienced with desoldering as the PCB on an HRD isn't great and you can easily destroy the tracks. 

TheMarlin

The only amp I ever regretted selling was my Omedga Mods Hot Rod Deluxe.  It was a spectacular amp. 
I sold it to by a point to point handwired Tone King Imperial.  The imperial has a sweeter tone, was lovely, but the omega hot rod had incredible dynamics.  I ended up selling the Tone King, and have been looking for another Omega Moddec hot rod deluxe since. 

The previous owner sent the amp chasis to Jim at Omega amp mods in the USA. He replaced the vast majority of components. The clean channel was a lush blackface with great breakup tones, and excellent pick dynamics.  The drive channel was Marshall Plexi, and the 'more drive' was Dumble voiced.  It truly was a great piece of kit. 

I HIGHLY recommend Omega amp mods for the Fender Hot Rod series.  I believe he does kits now, so your local amp tech can do the work for you. 

Marlin

colourofsound

Crikey, two very different experiences there. Two very different kits though by the sounds of things.

@Danny1969 The Reverb mod sounds interesting, apparently just clipping a cable? I like the Reverb on the amp but anything above 2 is overkill!

@TheMarlin Can't seem to find Omega Mods online; website looks defunct.

TheMarlin

I think he's moved to Facebook. Unfortunately, I don't do Facebook. 

Try emailing him. jim@omegamps.com
He'd very friendly. Top bloke!

colourofsound

I don't blame you! I'll message him on there then. Cheers!

colourofsound

@themarlin spoken to him - he wants $250 for a list of parts and instructions to do the mod, which i could give to a tech local to me. Not sure how i feel about that! Suffice to say don't have that cash currently!

TheMarlin

I guarantee you this. You'd be massively impressed with the results, and if you don't like the amp afterwards, I'd give you a good price for it. 

I think it's worth every penny. I also recommend a Cannabis Rex speaker for this amp.  Makes a big difference. 

Marlin

phase3

I know the mods that Jim does and have spoken to him a fair bit. These are pretty extensive and should be viewed as a complete rebuild rather than just mods. What you end up with is something that really sounds quite different from the standard amp. His main changes though are in the performance and sound of the drive channels more than the clean.  If you are still intending to main use pedals you may not wish to entertain such a major rebuild. 
I've modded a lot of HRD's and Devilles.  The fromel mods are a waste of money - you can do those much cheaper than buying stuff from Fromel.  I think my current highly modded deville is the best i've ever heard and i wouldn't be parted from it.  However there's no doubt that in terms of importance-  Speaker change is the biggest upgrade , then tubes, then fiddling with component values and maybe upgrading some of the components ( caps maybe). It's a kind of holistic thing - it's not about doing one or two things without the others. If you work through these amps as i've just described you can end up (incrementally) with something very very good.  However you have to know what you want and there's no point in messing about with cap or resistor values unless you can pinpoint things the you don't like about your amp.

colourofsound

Thanks boys. Yeah its the Fender cleans i'm after - having said that when I had a Laney I loved the drive on that, so i'd welcome better dirt on the HRD as its rubbish at stock config, as everyone knows.

i've already farted about with the valves and speaker - replaced the Eminence with a Celestion G12 i found in a Carlsbro amp that was in a skip at work (!) - its 15 ohms though, will that cause me issues down the line?

Valveswise - JJ5751 in V1, EHX 12AY7 in V2, NOS Philips 12AT7 in V3. JJ 6L6s for power.

The only reason i'm looking at mods is because the amps fucked at the mo so it's going to be on the bench anyway. Its currently crunching constantly and all the low end has gone

TheMarlin

I had a regular Hot Rod Deluxe, and a 4x10 Deville. 
The cleans on the Omega HRD were tuned to my tastes.  Never squeaky clean, always a hint of dirt (the way I like it).  You had to push the amp hard to get it to break up though. Loved pedals. 

I HUGHLY regret selling the amp, was out of work, so didn't have much choice. Have contacted the buyer a few times to see if he wants to sell it back, no dice.  Don't blame him

i may just pick up a cheap HRD that needs work, and get it modded by Jim. 

Marlin

colourofsound

@TheMarlin I don't doubt you bud - but it's basically the cost of a new amp once I've paid Jim and then paid The Amp Clinic to carry out the mods for me - if they'd even do it! There must be comparable amps you can buy that match the quality of this mod, surely?

Anyway, I like my cleans clean! Headroom is king

impmann

TBH, if you like your cleans clean and you like headroom, and you clearly like the sound of the HRD, rather than fiddle about with kits that may or may not improve things, why not look at other amps that do similar, if you want a different flavour...

I'm kinda struggling to understand what you want to change - the HRD stays pretty flippin clean until it starts getting pretty flippin loud. If you need more volume and clean then perhaps consider a Hot Rod Deville (60w, so greater headroom) or something like a HiWatt, Sound City (real one, not the recent Far Eastern things) etc Or even something like an HH IC100 or Roland JC120.

I tried a lower gain preamp valve in my HRD to try to increase headroom - and because I believed some bullshit on a modding forum. TBH, the amp sounded dreadful and I took it straight back out... so I've since been wary of mods to 'improve' amps. I'm sure some of them work but its hard to test them out before you commit...

ICBM

The best way to improve a HRD is to buy one of the limited edition ones with a ply cabinet and a better speaker, and put good valves in it… in my opinion.

colourofsound

@impmann I guess I'm not really trying to change anything - I'm just interested in whats out there and whether it's worth it. I'm surprised with your experience of changing the valves out - it's made a drastic difference in my amp, a 5751 in V1 really increases that headroom, and the tone is great. And that unusable gain channel is now a really nice clean boost/breakup with a 12AY7 in V2. I guess it just depends on what you like, which valves you get, even what version of the amp you have.

I like the discussion and the discovery and the research as much as I like the playing of the gear, it's all part of it. And it's worth talking to you guys about things; now I know that the Fromel Electronics kit - which is cheap enough to warrant an impulse buy - isn't worth it.

The only reason I'm interested in the mods is because the amp is currently showing faults and it's going on the bench anyway - my research intent was initially to improve the reliability rather than the tone. I'll check out those other amps you mentioned - although 2x12 amps like the Deville are probably a bit heavy/big really. I'd be interested to try a Tweed Deluxe as I've never looked at the warmer side of Fender amps before.

@ICBM I'm totally with you there actually - I demo'd some pedals through a George Benson HRD and I was more interested in the amp than the pedals I'd actually gone to try! Sounded incredible. Once I get mine fixed up maybe I'll try and swap her out for a Benson edition.

impmann

This is why there is no right or wrong to any of this! I tried the 5751 in V1 and hated it - in fact, I still have it and did offer it for sale a while back, with no takers.

Mine is the Mk3 - Celestion driver, better taper on the volume control etc and I genuinely love that amp. I too use it as a pedal platform - I hate the drive channel!

Good luck in your quest.

Danny1969

@ICBM has proved to be annoyingly right to me recently regarding the drive channel, I've always maintained it's rubbish but have found recently doing endless dep gigs that with the right guitar and some careful dialing you can get a good drive sound out of it

Reliability wise I think the amps are pretty good, the volt dropping resistors can desolder themselves on earlier models ... other than that they are pretty good .... I don't know why they designed it like this, I can only assume there wasn't a transformer available with a lower centre tapped supply for the op amps ?

colourofsound

You're speaking French to me now @Danny1969. What I know about electronics can be written on the back of a penny.

Yeah the drive channel is a funny beast. It's amazing how the valves can make such a huge difference. I tried the 5751 in v2 and it still sounded pants; but I bought the 12AY7 for V1 and that was quite thin - putting it in V2 with a 5751 in V1 has really opened the drive channel up for decent sounds.

I also found that swapping out the stock Eminence in mine made a huge difference (Mine is a Mk II CC: @impmann). That speaker is a horrendous and shrill piece of cardboard if ever there was one!

On that note, and me not knowing about electronics - the speaker I have in it now is an old Celestion G12, but I noticed that it's 15ohms. Given that the amp only has 4 or 8 ohm outputs - is this bad? Am I slowly killing the power amp section?

Barney

I have had the omega mods done on my HRD and never looked back its a very big improvement to stock ... the clean is fatter and so is the lead ..very dynamic..i have a few more expensive amps and the hotrod will hold its own with them...previously there was liads of difference 

colourofsound

@Barney Did you have it done in the UK?

earwighoney

ICBM said:

The best way to improve a HRD is to buy one of the limited edition ones with a ply cabinet and a better speaker, and put good valves in it… in my opinion.

What speaker do you recommend? 

I revalved my Blues Deluxe recently (not a million miles away from being a HRD) and I used a JJ 12AY7 in V1, a NOS ECC83 in V2, and a RFT 12AT7 in V3 with JJ 6L6GC's.  I'm liking the amp a lot more.  The amp is still really loud and produces way too much bass though!