What scale/riff shapes.........

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........could I use over the chord progressions C#m  E  G#m  B. (Thin Lizzy's 'Waiting for an alibi').
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2177
    edited January 2017
    You could play C#m pentatonic and add the 9th (D#).

    The chords don't define whether there's a b6 (A) or a 6th (A#). What's happening in the rest of the song might give a clue.

    I suspect adding a b6 might be the way to go if you want to complete the scale, which would make it C#m Aeolian mode, as opposed to adding a straight 6th which would make it C#m Dorian mode. Or avoid the 6th altogether depending on what your ear tells you in the context of the song.

    It's not a competition.
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  • The Chord sequence is a 2/4/6/1 in B Major. The only missing note, if you take all the notes from all of the chords, is an A note, which would be A sharp in the Scale of B Major. So, as suggested above, certainly C Sharp Dorian would work. My personal preference, for quite a while, has been to create a base for my soloing on the notes of the chord that I'm playing over. I accept that it can be quite a lot of brain pain trying to work out the notes of the next chord or two, whilst trying to play at the same time, especially with more complex / altered chords.
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  • Thanks gents.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    edited January 2017
    ^ I see it a bit differently from the above post; the actual song is in c# minor not B major, so although it's c#m E g#m B, the assumption is that it comes to rest on the final c#m, so it's a i-III-v-VII-i progression, as per Stratman's post. 

    As has been said, the 6 note is absent from the chords; the 'default' key of the song would be c# Aeolian, which would have a natural, minor 6th (A); if you wished to play in c# Dorian, you would raise the 6th to an A#. It's entirely up to you. Raising the 6th sweetens the song up; keeping it natural dampens it down. If you were temporarily to play a 4 chord in the progression, as you climbed up from the E to the g#, that would define the mode - if you played an f# minor - a iv chord - you'd be in c# aeolian. If you played an F# major IV chord, you'd be in c# dorian. Try both and see which sounds most right to you. 

    Because the progression is consistently diatonic you can noodle away in c# aeolian (or dorian) throughout. If you are interested in knowing the actual scales for each chord like Dave suggested, it'd be:

    c#m: c# aeolian (or dorian)
    E: E ionian (or lydian)
    g#m: g# phrygian (or aeolian)
    B: B mixolydian (or ionian)

    Finally it's worth mentioning that the minor pentatonic is 'amodal' as it contains no 6th (or 2nd) - hence its universal applicability and appeal - so c# minor penta would fit both concepts, but would be quite boring after a bit. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    Ok, just listened to the song. There is a IV chord in the chorus, an F# major, so I'd personally go with c# dorian. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    edited January 2017
    viz said:
    Ok, just listened to the song. There is a IV chord in the chorus, an F# major, so I'd personally go with c# dorian. 
    I'll have to respectfully disagree here

    Whilst there is a IV chord in the pre-chorus I don't think it's enough to determine being in B major (let's disregard the fact it's tuned a semitone down). In the same section it goes i v VI VII leading to the chorus which is in E - I iii IV V (or III v VI VII if still thinking C#m). That A chord has a bigger effect on making it Aeolian... for my ear at least. 

    I agree that taken in isolation the verse could be seen as Dorian or Aeolian, But in context of the bigger picture I think Aeolian fits better. All the parts are in C# Aeolian. 

    So for me, it's C#minor/pentatonic.  
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    edited January 2017
    Brad said:
    viz said:
    Ok, just listened to the song. There is a IV chord in the chorus, an F# major, so I'd personally go with c# dorian. 
    I'll have to respectfully disagree here 

    Whilst there is a IV chord in the pre-chorus I don't think it's enough to determine being in B major (let's disregard the fact it's tuned a semitone down). In the same section it goes i v VI VII leading to the chorus which is in E - I iii IV V (or III v VI VII if still thinking C#m). That A chord has a bigger effect on making it Aeolian... for my ear at least. 

    I agree that taken in isolation the verse could be seen as Dorian or Aeolian, But in context of the bigger picture I think Aeolian fits better. All the parts are in C# Aeolian. 

    So for me, it's C#minor/pentatonic.  


    yep, what I'm trying to say is that either c# dorian or c# aeolian is absolutely fine - but if he wants to stay in one scale throughout, he'll struggle with c# aeolian because of that A# in the F# chord. Of course he can play different scales in sifferent sections - nothing wrong with that either. Or adopt an approach not based on scales at all. 

    I confess I have no idea what you mean about B major. And c# minor pentatonic is a subset of both c# aeolian AND c# dorian, so I'm not really sure what you mean - probably because I'm just not following you properly!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    edited January 2017
    That A# in the F# chord that is found in 1 bar twice in the whole song? I think the A has a stronger impact personally. 

    I'm only referring to B major as the parent key of C# Dorian, I should've made that clearer. 

    Personally I think he'll struggle more hearing Dorian (although I could be paying him a disservice here!) as his ear is in all probability used to Aeolian as that is what the guys play on the record. They don't play an A# in any of the lead work, they are A naturals. 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    edited January 2017
    Fair enough - I only listened to the song up till that first F# chord, cheers!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    Yeah that'll be the problem, in which case I totally get where ya coming from :)
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  • vizviz Frets: 10644
    :)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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