Getting flustered trying to improvise over changes

ben_wuh

Anyone got any words of wisdom to help on this (admittedly very common) issue?

I've spent about 6 months with a teacher trying to improve my jazz playing, and I've made great progress in some areas, but I still find improvising over changes massively challenging.

I can apply a pre-written lick when I see a change I'm familiar with, like if I see a II-V-I coming up. But I've got a limited range of these to hand and I'm not really 'improvising'.

Similarly, I can use arpeggios to get me through a progression, but this sounds robotic and unmelodic.

My teacher says I need to hone in on the guide tones more, but I find it so hard to actually get that sense of tension and resolution in a line - all I'm doing is struggling to hit a certain note at a certain time.

Basically, there's a million things you could do and I can't do any of them particularly well! Anyone else had this issue?

And are there any exercises out there that can help me better find and use guide tones in my playing?

Thanks in advance!

UnclePsychosis

Use fewer notes and concentrate on rhythm. Making something that's rhythmically interesting is half the battle. 

fendergibson

This is fairly advanced stuff so firstly, don't be hard on yourself.

As with most things it's all about repetition and familiarity etc....It will come just as the difficult F barre chord did all those yrs ago !

Personally, I'd get a looper and record say a II-V-I as slow as you can - half speed, and go from there. Also listen to and watch as much as you can from the greats, see if you can pick up any reaccurring patterns in their playing as unless it's free form jazz there's usually a lot less improv than you'd imagine. 

Record your tutor doing his improv over changes, video him, see what he targets etc, see if you can replicate it, then change it up a little.

May I recommend Guthrie Govan for some inspiration, when he gets jazzy my eyes get smoky

ben_wuh

Cheers guys. i definitely find that when I start panicking, my tendency is to play more notes, which inevitably sounds worse.

I think a looper's a great idea too for no-fuss practice. Plus an excuse to spend some money!

Off to listen to some Govan now...

bingefeller

There are lots of ii-V-I backings on Youtube which are good to try and practice over.

There are two books which I have found very helpful in outlining changes and these are Jazz Guitar Soloing: The Cellular Approach and Line Games, both by Randy Vincent.

The Cellular approach deals with playing arpeggios of chords and connecting them smoothly, such descending the 5-3-1-b7 of the ii and then ascending 3-5-7-b9 of the V.  He gives examples from famous recordings, such as Joe Pass etc.  He covers bebop cells and other advanced stuff too. There is no tab.

The Line Games book refers to a number of hexatonic scales that Randy has found lies in the playing of Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Pat Martino, Jimmy Raney and others.  A lot of their lines come from these hexatonic scales and there is a certain "rule" when creating melodies from these hexatonic scales.  For example, Randy has analysed the Honeysuckle Rose and Cry Me A River licks as coming from hexatonic scales that are created using the "rule".  

I would recommend Line Games to start off with, again it doesn't have tab but it's worth working on and most of the examples are very short.  

Roland

I take the opposite approach. It's not that I can't understand the theories, or don't want to learn. They have their place, and can help with analysing a melody. When it comes to improvising I find that thinking about theories is a distraction from playing.

Now I don't know what your teacher means by guide tones. The ones which I use fall into two groups:
1. What I'm going to resolve a phrase to. In a blues setting these would be root, 5th or maybe 3rd. Jazz resolution has a lot more options.
2. What interesting notes are in the underlying chord. These are typically the less normal notes e.g. b5 and #6. The notes which sit outside the major and minor scales, and add character to the song.

Then it comes to stitching a melody together on the fly. As @UnclePsychosis says, make it rhythmically interesting, using the guide tones, and throwing in a few intervening notes and mannerisms: bends, slurs, etc. After a while you get to a point where you sense an idea, melodic and/or rhythmic, and your fingers have played it before your brain has analysed the idea. In my experience this takes less than a week. I say week because it's not about how many hours you spend playing, but how many times you play a bit and then sleep on it. Good luck.

Barney

A few things to try would be 251 in C..try pentatonics Am A#m & Bm that way you will be playing things you know but adding tension notes

Another thing is targeting the altered notes on the V chord ..try say b9 first so play the Dminor line and hit the b9 then stop ...figure these out in all positions ..then from there work down the altered scale ..in this case G altered and target one of the chord tones in C...you can using passing notes to get you there at the right time ...you can repeat this with all the altered notes on the V chord in all the positions ...

Really its just constantly going over things and seeing what notes are available...another thing would be use your stock 251 lines and alter timing ..phrasing and note order..adding passing tones to make them your own ...get as much milage out of the ideas as possible and just take little steps then add on to them ..

Try using tritone substitution as well so over the G7 V chord ...use Db and the alterations on that ..its a good idea to work on chords cos what works in chords will work in lines...

Clarky

I've been working with one of my students regarding 'playing the changes'
the prob he has is trying to squeeze too much in
if the changes are quick.. you only need a few nicely chosen notes

also.. try building a small set of very simple preset licks that have plenty of space
once you're well used to playing them, it's easier to add embellishments to them ad-hoc..
and.. you can start combining fragments of them to create fresh licks..
like learning phrases in another language..
"can I have a beer please Mr?"
"a beer would be nice on a day like this"
mix em up
"a beer please, especially on a day like this"

think if it like walking a simple path safe in the knowledge that you can always stray from it here and there
and when you do, you're always aware of where it is and so can return to it if you start getting a bit lost..

this is in fact how I approach all of my live guitar solos..
that are largely set pieces, but I allow myself the freedom to stray in places and return at will

ben_wuh

Lots of interesting ideas to take away here. Thanks everyone for your replies!

@Clarky Funnily enough, my teacher keeps telling me 'it's like speaking a language' too!

Clarky

ben_wuh said:

Lots of interesting ideas to take away here. Thanks everyone for your replies!

@Clarky Funnily enough, my teacher keeps telling me 'it's like speaking a language' too!

I think the language analogy makes a lot of sense
especially when applied to the creative side of music [composition and improvisation]

think of it like you're initially learning a language from a phrase book when you're learning the songs, solos, licks of your heroes..
with time, you apply them more and more, and experiment with what you've learned..
all the time becoming more familiar and adding your own creativity to the phrases.. making them yours..
eventually you achieve fluency and are able to better express yourself by developing your own unique 'voice'

Clarky

ben_wuh said:

Cheers guys. i definitely find that when I start panicking, my tendency is to play more notes, which inevitably sounds worse.

I think a looper's a great idea too for no-fuss practice. Plus an excuse to spend some money!

Off to listen to some Govan now…

do you have Logic or Cubase [anything you can either programme music or record with]?

create the chord progression, slow it right down..
then over each chord change play the scales / arpeggios over and over to build a map of the fingerings over those changes..
when you're comfortable, start getting creative with them..
then increase the tempo little by little..

Barney

ben_wuh said:

Lots of interesting ideas to take away here. Thanks everyone for your replies!

@Clarky Funnily enough, my teacher keeps telling me 'it's like speaking a language' too!

Iff you have a mac or ipad ..ireal is great ..it has loads of jazz backing tracks ..no melody though ..and you can loop a few bars at a time to perfect parts ...its a great practise tool ..i use it all the time ...you can also alter key and tempo

viz

^ if that's your method, I heartily recommend it; coz your playing is ace. 

Clarky

Barney said:

ben_wuh said:

Lots of interesting ideas to take away here. Thanks everyone for your replies!

@Clarky Funnily enough, my teacher keeps telling me 'it's like speaking a language' too!

Iff you have a mac or ipad ..ireal is great ..it has loads of jazz backing tracks ..no melody though ..and you can loop a few bars at a time to perfect parts ...its a great practise tool ..i use it all the time ...you can also alter key and tempo

of late I've been using apple loops for this…
you can throw together quite a nice rum and double bass backing track in no time at all…
one of the things that helps is that you can slow it down, change key.. and create a loop to isolate tricky areas that demand a little more focus…
it's a pile of fun...

ben_wuh

@Clarky I have Garageband, and this weekend I spent a few hours recording some progressions nice and slow and then seeing what I can do with them. I have to say, it's like the clouds have parted - going over the chords really slow, bar by bar, l can actually come up with lines that sound flowing and melodic whilst also reflecting the harmony. It's great! I'm really chuffed.

I'm still not really improvising. It's more like a process of writing I suppose. But I'm hoping that if I persist with it I'll start to see the possibilities on the fly.

@viz thanks for the tip. I normally use YouTube backing tracks, but being able to loop parts and slow the tempo will help massively I think.

viz

It was really @Barney 's tip!

ben_wuh

@viz Oh yeah, right you are! Cheers @Barney!

UnclePsychosis

Here's a fun one for you : instead of playing an improvised guitar solo over the changes, sing an improvised guitar solo. Take away the bit where you have to worry about playing notes and just sing the kind of lines that your brain wants to make. It takes you away from getting worked up about what notes are "right" or getting trapped in a chord shape. 

Then,  if you want to, work put how to play the lines you've just sung. Do this often enough and soon you'll be able to play the lines first off, instead of singing them. 

viz

^ absolutely brilliant advice. 

Clarky

ben_wuh said:

@Clarky I have Garageband, and this weekend I spent a few hours recording some progressions nice and slow and then seeing what I can do with them. I have to say, it's like the clouds have parted - going over the chords really slow, bar by bar, l can actually come up with lines that sound flowing and melodic whilst also reflecting the harmony. It's great! I'm really chuffed.

I'm still not really improvising. It's more like a process of writing I suppose. But I'm hoping that if I persist with it I'll start to see the possibilities on the fly.

@viz thanks for the tip. I normally use YouTube backing tracks, but being able to loop parts and slow the tempo will help massively I think.

awesome.. what you are doing is flexing creative muscle..
with time, experimentation and practice you'll become more accustomed to how things work and sound..
eventually you'll be able to do this on the fly..
improvisation is never completely random.. just like speaking a language you'll have 'set phrases' that with time you'll be able to embellish / alter and link together at will..
by composing lines the way you are, you are essentially filling a creative pool
in the future you'll be drawing upon this pool as you become gradually more familiar and comfortable with it's content and context..
it's a lot of fun isn't it..

GuyBoden

ben_wuh said:

Anyone got any words of wisdom to help on this (admittedly very common) issue?

I've spent about 6 months with a teacher trying to improve my jazz playing, and I've made great progress in some areas, but I still find improvising over changes massively challenging.

If you want to play Jazz authentically, you need to listen to a lot of Jazz. (Obsessively to be honest)

Copy lines from your fav records and incorporate them into your playing style. 
(Yes, it's a cliché, but this really works)

Keep your ideas simple and always hear what you play.

Learn a bit of theory to back up what you're playing, but not too much theory, only just enough.

You won't do this in 6 months, but maybe 6 years.