He's back to start a war on brexit

ThePrettyDamned

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38996179

freakboy1610

He thinks the British people did something stupid based upon inadequate information... Pot calling kettle black!

Moe_Zambeek

He makes me want to vomit. I really wish he'd just stay in his basement counting all the loot he's creamed off the worlds dictators and oligarchs, rather than telling us what we should do.

Reverend

as someone who voted remain, this makes me worried. Siding with Blair or Farage? It's a tough call. 

ICBM

Reverend said:

as someone who voted remain, this makes me worried. Siding with Blair or Farage? It's a tough call. 

This.

randella

I didn't want to leave. We're going to leave. Those are two facts written in stone. 

Tony B.'s return should be interesting, despite the fact he's not going to change a damn thing. Past misdemeanours aside, I'd forgotten how articulate he is. 

hotpot

Why do these people have a problem with a democratic vote result! Do they want to keep having referendums until the desired vote goes their way!

axisus

Can't stand him. I'd prefer to never see or hear from him again. I honestly don't think it helps any cause in the world having him on your team. 

randella

axisus said:

Can't stand him. I'd prefer to never see or hear from him again. I honestly don't think it helps any cause in the world having him on your team. 

What cause? Remain doesn't have a cause, May's going to do what the hell she likes. Any last vestiges of hope for Remain having a bit of a say in Brexit were fucked out of the water by Corbyn. 

He's ruffling feathers is Tone, and it's only just gone ten am.  Got me popcorn ready. 

RobDavies

randella said:

axisus said:

Can't stand him. I'd prefer to never see or hear from him again. I honestly don't think it helps any cause in the world having him on your team. 

What cause? Remain doesn't have a cause, May's going to do what the hell she likes. Any last vestiges of hope for Remain having a bit of a say in Brexit were fucked out of the water by Corbyn. 

He's ruffling feathers is Tone, and it's only just gone ten am.  Got me popcorn ready. 

Speaking as someone who is slightly left of centre, the best thing that can happen for us "remainers" is that the likes of Blair, Corbyn and Abbot just fuck off.

Let someone with some respect and credibility upset the applecart.

randella

RobDavies said:

Speaking as someone who is slightly left of centre, the best thing that can happen for us "remainers" is that the likes of Blair, Corbyn and Abbot just fuck off.

Let someone with some respect and credibility upset the applecart.

The problem is, who?  I desperately wanted someone experienced, talented and sensible on each side who could lead, compromise, and talk out a reasonable deal but that has spectacularly failed to happen.

In the interim it's time for a bit of theatre.

HAL9000

I voted remain, but we live in a democracy and the majority voted to leave. His Royal Tonyness should butt out.

MrSwanson

Ego on him, thinking that he is still relevant!

Fretwired

This sums it up for me ...

vale

the very first & fundamental thing to be clear on with regard to brexit is that the leave majority was less than 4%.
which means that a swing of 2% (miniscule in terms of political swings) would make leave & remain 50/50.
basically (allowing for small change) half of those who voted wanted to stay & half wanted to remain.
if you are 52%/48% decided on something, you are basically undecided or confused.

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/0E22/production/_90081630_leaveresult.jpg
let's be really honest about that. talk of a collective & monolothic single-minded 'will of the people' is shite. it's a fantasy. leavers are in denial (lying to themselves & others) about that because it suits them, not because it is the case.

the biggest problem for democracy is that it's a fantasy the two major parties (& their filthy ukip appendage) are indugling rather than challenging.

it is certainly the job of the opposition to challenge it, & my disappointment with corbyn & labour on this is immense. but also the job of the government to accept & address it, since they are democratically obliged to serve the best interests of the entire country.
not just the 52% percent of the 70% of the 100% eleigible electorate who voted.

so while i don't like blair & i thought new labour was a betrayal of labour core values -
in my opinion they let neo-liberalism run riot, fiddling around with with tax credits etc, instead of addressing the fundamentals that underpin inequality -
i am behind anyone calling the government & opposition to account for indulging this ongoing 'will of the people' lie.

politics is weird & sometime you end up in strange & even perverse alliances in order to get the best result, but i'm behind blair on this issue & in this campaign. freaky but so.
i would rather corbyn was doing it, but he isn't, so i am obliged to take what is on the table.

importantly, blair is not alone, this is not blair's campaign or blair's argument. it's a public campaign & public argument that has been going on since june. if you are a remainer & committed to blocking brexit you may well have already been campaigning & arguing ever since & should continue to do so, if you really have the courage of your convictions.

but, flawed as blair is, one can't deny he has two political strengths.

the first is that he can really talk the talk. he's a smooth & persuasive talker & still very popular with a lot of the public. in spite of everything, he can still get through to the general public in that intimate one-to-one 'sincere' way only the most successful (good & bad) politicians can.

& second is that many people associate better (pre-crash) times with him. that's a big factor on the subconscious-irrational instinct level. we saw how big a part nostalgia (remember albion etc!) played in the leave campaign. well nostalgia cuts both ways & blair presses that 'good times' button for many.
if you did well during blair & new labour's stay & have struggled since 2010 (the tory dark ages) than he speaks to you & for you in a way they don't & can't.

so interesting times. weird times.

randella

@vale - tons of sense in that post, enjoyed reading it.

Interesting what you said about perverse alliances; I strongly disliked Corbyn from the off, but I wanted him to work out because we're all fighting from the same corner.  I'm the same with you on Blair in a lot of respects - you've got to extract the good and learn from it, and use it to your advantage.  I feel it's this diplomacy missing missing from all areas of world politics at the moment.  People now just seem to pick a hardline stance and yell supporting yet empty platitudes into a microphone. 

RandallFlagg

I thought he voted 'Leave'?

as in 'Leave Iraq in a complete mess'

Cirrus

hotpot said:

Why do these people have a problem with a democratic vote result! Do they want to keep having referendums until the desired vote goes their way!

Framing the question like that is overly simplistic.

It's not about having a problem with the result of a democratic vote.

It's about having a problem with taking a result that had a very narrow majority and using it as a mandate to pursue a very hard-line policy which was not made explicit to the voting public at the time. 48% of the voters definitely didn't want what's happening now, and of the 52% who voted leave, I don't think it would be unfair to say a portion of them didn't think leaving the EU political organisation also meant automatically leaving the economic/ trading partnership too.

Of course everyone who DOES want this to happen is going to claim dissenters are going against the will of the people, what a powerful political tool that is!

As for Blair, he's a tool but I very reluctantly have to say I'm glad someone's fighting for an alternative.

Fretwired

vale said:

the first is that he can really talk the talk. he's a smooth & persuasive talker & still very popular with a lot of the public. in spite of everything, he can still get through to the general public in that intimate one-to-one cosy way only the most successful (good & bad) politicians can.

and second is that many people associate better (pre-crash) times with him. that's a big factor on the subconscious-irrational instinct level.

Blair seems to be getting trashed on social media - I think Blair has a problem with younger voters. He's seen as part of the problem in the Middle East, he pressed for war in Iraq without a plan for what happened when the war was over and was in cahoots with the USA. And since leaving politics he's amassed a £50 million plus fortune. Another champagne socialist.

And Blair had all sorts of issues - cutting benefits to single parents, trying to reorganise public services, a major NHS crisis - Patricia Hewitt was booed and slow hand clapped by NHS staff over deficits and a lack of funding. The Unions didn't like Blair. And Blair offered a referendum on the EU - we know what happened next. There's something dishonest and grubby about Blair.

scrumhalf

Were the people who voted for him similarly misinformed?

Fretwired

scrumhalf said:

Were the people who voted for him similarly misinformed?

No .. the Tories were awful and Blair was a breath of fresh air - I admit I voted for him. His problem was getting three terms and having no effective opposition and a huge majority in the Commons. He went stale just like Thatcher and overreached himself with Iraq - we should maybe have a two term rule like the USA.