90Db limit

Cabicular

I've fallen foul of this a couple of times
The Clutha in Glasgow kept telling us to turn down because they have built the venue in the beer garden with a perspex roof and the local hotels were complaining.
I can't turn down the drum kit and when the manager was asking our drummer not to play his cymbals it was starting to get a bit tense.
Then they switched off all the stager monitoring claiming it had failed which meant we couldn't hear the vocalists (of which I am one). I brought a monitor from the van onstage and split the lead singers vocals in that. When they complained about that we threatened to walk. We had the same situation of the punters screaming at us to turn up and the venue student sounds and manager to turn down.
It doesn't help them that the leave the door open when all the smokers are out.
Needless to say we refuse to play there any more. It's just not worth the hassle. (that was 90db via a hand held)
St Andrews in the Square in Glasgow is a converted church with a limiter that I can set off with my singing voice at full pelt. No PA
We had to ask the audience not to clap or stamp their feet as it triggered it as well
Again on my list of venues I turn down. It's just not worth the hassle

ESBlonde

I always ask about Stairs and limiters. Both a likely no no for the band we had that carried it's own big PA and lighting rig. How and where the level is measures is critical. In many venues that is at the boundry/property line, but in the window behind the drummer is the property line you might have a problem!
Many venues need the device to have thier license but will often let you feed power elsewhere as long as you are 'sensible' with your volume. You will find that loud and clear is less likely to attract attention than distorted, although deep bass has little problem getting out of most venues.
Tents are a nightmare, the sound isn't helped by the walls bouncing it back into the room making it feel loud so the temptation to turn up must be resisted! It escapes to anoy the neighbours so much easier and the lower frequencies can travel great distances before losing energy. Play for the dance floor, if they can't hear they can get closer.

UnclePsychosis

Of course a big fat elephant in the room is that lots of drummers are incapable of playing quietly, which is entirely because they're not good enough. Obviously some music requires absolutely pumping drums which is fair enough, but for most wedding band repertoires the drummer should be capable of reigning it in. I've played with drummers that only have two volumes---on and off---and its exhausting to listen to.

I've played with oversensitive limiters and its awful, many of them are impossible to work with but your band should at least be physically capable of trying to play quieter!

Cabicular

UnclePsychosis said:

Of course a big fat elephant in the room is that lots of drummers are incapable of playing quietly, which is entirely because they're not good enough. Obviously some music requires absolutely pumping drums which is fair enough, but for most wedding band repertoires the drummer should be capable of reigning it in. I've played with drummers that only have two volumes---on and off---and its exhausting to listen to.

I've played with oversensitive limiters and its awful, many of them are impossible to work with but your band should at least be physically capable of trying to play quieter!

depends on the style of music though
Sweet home Alabama fine ... but it's pretty hard to soften up something like the trooper
I can't bear overly loud drummers either but I have some sympathy. Crash Cymbals for example are hard to moderate

cj73

UnclePsychosis said:

Of course a big fat elephant in the room is that lots of drummers are incapable of playing quietly, which is entirely because they're not good enough. Obviously some music requires absolutely pumping drums which is fair enough, but for most wedding band repertoires the drummer should be capable of reigning it in. I've played with drummers that only have two volumes---on and off---and its exhausting to listen to.

I've played with oversensitive limiters and its awful, many of them are impossible to work with but your band should at least be physically capable of trying to play quieter!

We got a new drummer in our "dad rock" covers band last year.  He turned up at 1st rehearsal and OMG..so loud...totally overplaying everything.  He's even replaced one of his splashes with a second ride.

I told him he was too loud and his answer was, " they're drums, they don't have volume controls" 

firepaulmusic

Thanks everybody for your informed advice and previous experience. Here is the email I have sent to the venue:

Dear Jessica,

With reference to the 90Db sound limit for music stated in your venue terms and conditions, may I request some further information? Exactly what specification are you measuring to as 90dBC Fast would be very hard to manage but 90dBa LAEq 15mins is achievable for a live band?

Basically the drummer would carefully manage his overall volume level and our sound engineer would do the rest. We aim to put on as professional a performance as possible so it is not in our interest to play overly loud.

Can you please confirm that your measurement equipment is within Class II calibration specifications? If we are under obligation to plug into a mains circuit which can be cut off by a limiter can you confirm that your venue insurance provides cover for any damage to our equipment as a result?

I hope this enquiry helps rather than hinders the whole process as we want our customer to be happy with the professional service we provide.

Best regards

Paul Smith

(Daytona)

not_the_dj

Very interested in seeing what reply you get to that!

bob21

Haha, fantastic! I look forwards to the reply.. 

Back when I used to gig lots (and not just engineer) - I have done a gig in a venue with a very strict limiter, which we successfully played despite of. Drummer used an electronic kit, guitar and bass went direct, all monitoring via IEM, and all sound via the PA - a properly volume-controllable band! We successfully played at 88dBa 1sec (which is pretty quiet!).

Did the band love it? no. Was it as rocking as an unlimited gig? No. Did the client get a live band, were the venue happy, did everybody get paid? Yes!

Roland

Ha. We walked into one venue with a limiter. I clapped my hands once and everything went off,  including the lights. We didn't bother to unload.

ICBM

firepaulmusic said:

Thanks everybody for your informed advice and previous experience. Here is the email I have sent to the venue:

Dear Jessica,

With reference to the 90Db sound limit for music stated in your venue terms and conditions, may I request some further information? Exactly what specification are you measuring to as 90dBC Fast would be very hard to manage but 90dBa LAEq 15mins is achievable for a live band?

Basically the drummer would carefully manage his overall volume level and our sound engineer would do the rest. We aim to put on as professional a performance as possible so it is not in our interest to play overly loud.

Can you please confirm that your measurement equipment is within Class II calibration specifications? If we are under obligation to plug into a mains circuit which can be cut off by a limiter can you confirm that your venue insurance provides cover for any damage to our equipment as a result?

I hope this enquiry helps rather than hinders the whole process as we want our customer to be happy with the professional service we provide.

Best regards

Paul Smith

(Daytona)

That's a very good letter.

professorben

firepaulmusic said:

Thanks everybody for your informed advice and previous experience. Here is the email I have sent to the venue:

Dear Jessica,

With reference to the 90Db sound limit for music stated in your venue terms and conditions, may I request some further information? Exactly what specification are you measuring to as 90dBC Fast would be very hard to manage but 90dBa LAEq 15mins is achievable for a live band?

Basically the drummer would carefully manage his overall volume level and our sound engineer would do the rest. We aim to put on as professional a performance as possible so it is not in our interest to play overly loud.

Can you please confirm that your measurement equipment is within Class II calibration specifications? If we are under obligation to plug into a mains circuit which can be cut off by a limiter can you confirm that your venue insurance provides cover for any damage to our equipment as a result?

I hope this enquiry helps rather than hinders the whole process as we want our customer to be happy with the professional service we provide.

Best regards

Paul Smith

(Daytona)

If this doesn't work out, 'Daytona' is a brilliant drag act name.......

firepaulmusic

professorben said:

firepaulmusic said:

Thanks everybody for your informed advice and previous experience. Here is the email I have sent to the venue:

Dear Jessica,

With reference to the 90Db sound limit for music stated in your venue terms and conditions, may I request some further information? Exactly what specification are you measuring to as 90dBC Fast would be very hard to manage but 90dBa LAEq 15mins is achievable for a live band?

Basically the drummer would carefully manage his overall volume level and our sound engineer would do the rest. We aim to put on as professional a performance as possible so it is not in our interest to play overly loud.

Can you please confirm that your measurement equipment is within Class II calibration specifications? If we are under obligation to plug into a mains circuit which can be cut off by a limiter can you confirm that your venue insurance provides cover for any damage to our equipment as a result?

I hope this enquiry helps rather than hinders the whole process as we want our customer to be happy with the professional service we provide.

Best regards

Paul Smith

(Daytona)

If this doesn't work out, 'Daytona' is a brilliant drag act name.......

What makes you think we aren't a drag act?

koneguitarist

And that's how rumours start, by me! Suppose it's better than taking the "soft option" and being left "Breathless". 

Sorry, @firepaulmusic the names are out there now! 

firepaulmusic

koneguitarist said:

And that's how rumours start, by me! Suppose it's better than taking the "soft option" and being left "Breathless". 

Sorry, @firepaulmusic the names are out there now! 

Or even "Local Government"! Ha ha

John_A

Just got back from an early setup at a Freemasons gig with one of these daft devices my the time we put most of the PA back in the van, and ran nothing but the vocals through there very quietly we seem to be under the trip limit.  I play louder at home!  Think Motörhead will be dropped for tonight!

andyoz

Anyone giving out about these devices should be aiming fire at Govenmemt Planning Dept over the last 25 years.  This drive for mixed commercial and residential usage doesn't really work.  Also, the general population aren't as tolerant as they once were.

I'm one of the consultants caught in the middle of all this.  You could have a long term venue and a planner giving permission to new resdential usage nearby basically hands ALL of the power to the new residents.

maltingsaudio

Interestingly enough last nights gig in an established venue which is at the heart of the village community but suffering from complaints from the new blow ins, had the council outside monitoring from 8 o,clock. They have done lots to the hall to contain the noise and the gig was bloody loud. The council bods seemed more concerned about the noise from the  smokers outside. 

Also so as an aside don't rely on the app on your phone to tell you how loud you are

ICBM

maltingsaudio said:

Interestingly enough last nights gig in an established venue which is at the heart of the village community but suffering from complaints from the new blow ins

This makes me angry. There should be an 'agent of change' presumption in all cases like this.

Move next to an established source of noise, don't like it, fuck off somewhere else...

andyoz

Laws always protect residential amenity over commercial user rights.

Even Glastonbury is held to ransom by a small village miles away.  There was the Killers set debarcle years back where a sudden temperature inversion forced the FOH level down from 103dBA to about 95dBA or something like that.  You could hear the crowd shouting turn it up apparently!