Should I Sack Them Off???Band Advice Please.

Modellista

Practicalities aside, when the band's playing, does it sound good?  Does it excite you?  Does it give you the fizz?!

If so, it would be worth trying to solve the practical problems before walking away.

No band is going to be without difficulties at one point or another, so if you leave straight away you might run into exactly the same problems with your next band.  At least raise your concerns and give the others, specifically the singer, a chance to put things right.  Tell them that you're not prepared to continue as things are, so you want to see some changes otherwise you'll leave.  Then the choice is basically made for you - if the changes are made, you're happy and will stay, if nothing changes you'll leave.  Easy peasy.

It sounds like the biggest bone of contention is the gig booking situation.  Fair enough if the singer likes to work with a particular promoter, but you all deserve to have a say in the dates and terms of any booking.  He needs to be told to put the details down in an email and get everyone's agreement before confirming the booking with the promoter.  That should include essential details like payment, and whether PA is included.  *DON'T* go down the route of a shared PA, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

As has been suggested above, why not do the pub gig and have one set as a Bowie set and the other as straightforward same-era songs.  Surely nobody can quibble with that as a first gig.

I suppose my approach would be - I've got nothing to lose by trying to iron out the problems with the band before I decide to jack it in.  Tell the band that your continued involvement is dependent on these things being sorted.  Any sensible person would see it's in the best interest of the band.  It is indeed possible that the singer is on an ego trip and thinks the whole thing revolves around him, in which case it's a no hoper, but it would be worth pushing the issue to find this out I think.  A shame to throw it all away without trying, especially if the band sounds good when it's going well.

Placidcasual79

Do you get a buzz of playing with them @bellycaster? If not go no further and f*ck it off before the keys guy involved in a train wreck. 

 If you do enjoy it - tell them your not playing another note till you've met face to face - tell them you want to commit but there are issues you want sorting first - take a list of your issues to the get together and run through them.... make a decision after you've got your answers. There is no point wasting anymore of your time (or theirs) 

I personally wouldn't sweat the first gig too much. Generally as long as you play reasonably well and perform with some enthusiasm you'll be fine. I don't think the Rod thing would be viable long term but if its just a solution for the first gig then I guess it'll do. Doing a gig with them might help you decided about committing to them long term. You can get assurances about their longer term ideas at the meeting. 

Let us know how you get on mate. 

bbill335

I haven't read the whole thread but I don't see why capable players can't learn a bunch of album-version bowie tunes in a month. 

professorben

As I see it you have a few options. 
1) leave, prob resulting in you getting bad mouthed etc as 'unprofessional'
2) try to organise the band properly, which can be awkward if you have a singer and a promoter arranging gigs you ain't ready for. 
 And my personal recommendation

3) learn your parts, leave it all up to someone else to organise and sort out, turn up, play the shit out of everything and let the singer fall on his arse. 

fob

I can understand someone forgetting or mixing up dates but people don't tend to do that with money - that would be a major red flag for me. I think I'd want to be clear on what everyone was getting (promoter included) even if you're just doing it for fun.

57Deluxe

you could also add in 'Be My Wife' from Low and extend it to 8 mins!

Bellycaster

Ok, here's the upshot.

@Placidcasual and @modellista good advice, as is everyone else's really, but yes, I suppose I have to give them a chance to correct things as we do sound good when we play. I've spoken to him and gotten things off my chest.

The Bloody March Gig turned out to been cancelled yesterday, which is a good thing(it would have been cancelled anyway though, by me), but it wasn't updated.

So the conditions are from now, better communication, transparency on earnings, not gigging until we are absolutely ready with a full Bowie set and I have the details of this guys promoter which I have checked out and is legit.

Our singer does some singing gig shows called "That 70's show" or something like that late in the year with this promoter. I don't think the singer is dodgy in a rip you off sort of way, he's OK, but it's hard to get a story like this across without making him sound dodgy.

I think he's just very very busy in life in general and needs to manage comms better.

I've told the Keys guy to back off for now as he's already earning a living, but if we get going properly and it looks promising, then I'll get back in touch with him. If it turns shite, I might get a Bowie band gong with him if we can muster up some musicians, we may not need to if the others get hacked off with it.

In the meantime, without the keys, we'll have to arrange songs like Life on Mars, Oh You Pretty Things and Changes to suit Guitar. Should be fun and will still sound good.

@fretfinder I had that track in mind but forgot to write it down in the OP. Great track, I've already learned that one.

Octafish

Personally I'd be very wary of the singer. The money issues, his 'promoter', his involvement in '70s Show' gigs and his willingness to stuff the set list with Rod Stewart because it's convenient for him (he expects you to learn them because he can't be arsed to learn more Bowie?) would be a big red flag for me. Sounds like he sees everything revolving around him - 'the star of the show'. Be ready to have more gigs or crap tunes thrust upon you at short notice

Also as someone else mentioned, I'd be a bit pissed off as a member of the audience going to see a Bowie band and hearing a load of Rod Stewart crap, I mean "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy"

Kebabkid

A bit late to the conversation but glad you're a little happier on this one J but keep an eye on it, especially the singer as it sounds like he could go a bit karaoke/cheesy.

The March gig should never have been on the cards so I'm glad that's gone and I can't see how Rod Stewart would've fitted in with this. There are some good Rod Stewart songs from the early days like "Maggie May", "You wear it well" etc that are credible but even so, where do they fit in with what's essentially a Bowie night. Also, the RS songs suggested were very poor!

I know you've got a buzz out of this band and the playing standard is good so I hope you get it to where you want.

Good luck

IvisonGuitars

fretfinder said:

No advice from me other than you should do All the Young Dudes, a great gig song and one that doesn't need keys imho.

What?!! Verden's Hammond is integral to that song!! Blasphemy!! ;-)

BigKev

Unless the singer is the dogs bollox then fuck this off, he sounds like a bull shitter to me !!!

If he cant be arsed to clarify important details about gig venue, date or cash then he is either incompetent or lazy or a rip off twat/timewaster.
You don't / cant forget or not know details about a gig !!!

There is an old saying

if something sounds, smells, feels and spreads like bull shit.

it usually is bullshit !!!!!!

Bellycaster

Octafish said:

Personally I'd be very wary of the singer. The money issues, his 'promoter', his involvement in '70s Show' gigs and his willingness to stuff the set list with Rod Stewart because it's convenient for him (he expects you to learn them because he can't be arsed to learn more Bowie?) would be a big red flag for me. Sounds like he sees everything revolving around him - 'the star of the show'. Be ready to have more gigs or crap tunes thrust upon you at short notice

Also as someone else mentioned, I'd be a bit pissed off as a member of the audience going to see a Bowie band and hearing a load of Rod Stewart crap, I mean "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy"

Well, my terms have been laid out now @Octafish . I think he understands, I think he does obviously want a full Bowie set, but lke you say, he was just shovelling in some songs he knew for the March gig. I think we all understand each other now, but, if I get doubts again, I'm off.

Thanks @Kebabkid I will keep a close eye on things. He is a very good singer though. Might have to get to know him a bit more. It sounds like he has a busy life outside of music as well. Agree on the Rod songs, there are some far better ones than those he wanted to do. If we have to have a couple of filler songs, it'd be much more appropriate to do Sweet or Slade etc, more fitting to the Glam era.

Thanks everyone else too.

Octafish

Bellycaster said:

Octafish said:

Personally I'd be very wary of the singer. The money issues, his 'promoter', his involvement in '70s Show' gigs and his willingness to stuff the set list with Rod Stewart because it's convenient for him (he expects you to learn them because he can't be arsed to learn more Bowie?) would be a big red flag for me. Sounds like he sees everything revolving around him - 'the star of the show'. Be ready to have more gigs or crap tunes thrust upon you at short notice

Also as someone else mentioned, I'd be a bit pissed off as a member of the audience going to see a Bowie band and hearing a load of Rod Stewart crap, I mean "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy"

Well, my terms have been laid out now @Octafish . I think he understands, I think he does obviously want a full Bowie set, but lke you say, he was just shovelling in some songs he knew for the March gig. I think we all understand each other now, but, if I get doubts again, I'm off.

Sounds a wise thing to do Bellycaster. My attitude is that I can put up with some flakeyness/band politics if it's original writing and good, because that set up can be hard to come by, but there are many together/no bullshit musicians out there to do cover stuff with so why compromise. Good luck!

olafgarten

I've always said that if you don't have enough songs to fill the set, you improvise a 10 minute Guitar Solo for every other song. 

welshboyo

Hi Jon,

Be careful is what I would say, if you are getting the "why the hell am I doing this?" pangs as you seem to be in the original post then trust your initial instincts!!

I got caught in a similar fashion doing a Tom Jones tribute - all the talk of big tribute act money etc, big promoter interest, talk of UK tour etc etc - great bunch of musicians, an absolutely stonking band - spent months and months rehearsing with numerous key changes by the singer - lots of hard work, lots of money, lots of my personal time, lots of travelling to rehearsals.

We then had the "bite" a freebie gig in a fairly large well known club in Cardiff where a lot of prospective clients were going to be, promoters, agents, Radio contacts etc etc - we were sold the whole shooting match, we all (a 12 piece band) put money into it to hire the venue etc, were promised that we would get the investment back ten fold.

Gig happened....well half of it...the singer (who was the "driving force" behind it all) keeled over with heat exhaustion halfway into Sex Bomb!! and had to have an ambulance - never saw our investment return, the whole thing imploded and I learnt the hard way to never ever do that type of thing again...

If it smells funny, it's either Jazz or it's a car crash waiting to happen..

The singer btw is still out there doing the Tom thing, but now as a solo, he did try another stab at the full band thing, but it never took off...

HPhillipsmusic

#rigsofdad

BahHumbug

Sounds like the singer is a typical amateur singer.  Full of big ideas, but not willing to do the fundamentals of his role properly.  There are only so many chances you can give to that sort of character before it becomes a waste of time.  Totally support your attitude @Bellycaster ;

Bellycaster

HPhillipsmusic said:

#rigsofdad

Que?

Dominic

Been in almost exactly the same position esp. re ;singer .......he joined my band ,soon became obvious that he was a total pain in the arse wanting to import a huge Rod Stewart / Freddie Mercury agenda which i came to realise was basically because it gave him more limelight time / ego feed ..........he started to try to convince other band members that anything with a guitar solo was boring for the audience etc etc  ie anything where he wasn't front of stage 100 % of the time .
 I tolerated it for a while because he was a good singer ...........despite wanting to swap the key of a song at 5 mins notice more often than not . More annoying was that he refused to turn up to rehearsals until "the band " were note perfect on clusters of half a dozen songs and then he would do us the honour of appearing and adding the vocals.
 We had a few harmony numbers eg Eagles stuff etc - our backing vocal were ok but not great so we suggested a harmoniser pedal for him as some are very good now -he flatly refused as he said it was "cheating " and detracted from his own voice !!!
  So he turned my band into his backing band .........I had enough and shut the whole thing down.
 He also had a weird habit of going to see other local covers bands ....talking to them at interval and then getting up on stage in their second set and either trying to share vocals on songs he knew or compromising their vocalist into letting him do a guest number...........WTF ! Surprisingly every band was so taken by surprise that he got away with it and nobody Fucked him off .
Total Wanker.
 My experience of vocalists has always been bad .........put him in place now or leave him to it .

Bellycaster

welshboyo said:

Hi Jon,

Be careful is what I would say, if you are getting the "why the hell am I doing this?" pangs as you seem to be in the original post then trust your initial instincts!!

I got caught in a similar fashion doing a Tom Jones tribute - all the talk of big tribute act money etc, big promoter interest, talk of UK tour etc etc - great bunch of musicians, an absolutely stonking band - spent months and months rehearsing with numerous key changes by the singer - lots of hard work, lots of money, lots of my personal time, lots of travelling to rehearsals.

We then had the "bite" a freebie gig in a fairly large well known club in Cardiff where a lot of prospective clients were going to be, promoters, agents, Radio contacts etc etc - we were sold the whole shooting match, we all (a 12 piece band) put money into it to hire the venue etc, were promised that we would get the investment back ten fold.

Gig happened....well half of it...the singer (who was the "driving force" behind it all) keeled over with heat exhaustion halfway into Sex Bomb!! and had to have an ambulance - never saw our investment return, the whole thing imploded and I learnt the hard way to never ever do that type of thing again...

If it smells funny, it's either Jazz or it's a car crash waiting to happen..

The singer btw is still out there doing the Tom thing, but now as a solo, he did try another stab at the full band thing, but it never took off...

Crikey, that sounded like a nightmare @welshboyo ;

Thanks for the advice and I'll be taking it one week at a time with these for a while.