Recommend a student-level violin (updated - now NVD)

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DartmoorHedgehogDartmoorHedgehog Frets: 888
edited April 2017 in Other Instruments
Anybody on here know about violins?

My daughter needs to replace her beginner's violin with something better.  Normal full-size classical violin.  Teacher has suggested we should expect to spend at least £300, but I'd be happy to go slightly more expensive if it got her a significantly better instrument.

Before we go out trying some, can anybody recommend any makes to look for, or features that should be expected in a decent student violin?  At that price, solid carved tops seem to be the norm (I assume the cheap one is pressed laminate) but anything else we should be looking out for?

Any suggestions very welcome - I know virtually nothing about violins.
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Comments

  • rsvmarkrsvmark Frets: 1374
    We had this ...... Twice, once for each child. The answer depends on your budget but that's a statement of the obvious. The Stentor range was decent, and a top of the range stentor is fine for beginners if it's strung with dominant strings. But when we started looking there was a massive gap in the market. There is literally nothing in the £500 market, at least nothing that sounded better than the £200 stentor. To get any instrument that was a step change in quality, it went to over £1000 for new instrument. If your daughter is of the age requiring a full size, she is probably of a decent ability too. Mine were and we went for the best second hand instruments we could afford. Not only was the tonality in an utterly different league, it utterly inspired both kids to play more. Go to a reputable second hand dealer and pick one you like.
    An official Foo liked guitarist since 2024
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  • DartmoorHedgehogDartmoorHedgehog Frets: 888
    edited February 2017
    Thanks @rsvmark.  I'll have a look at Stentor.  She's quite good at it, and keen, but not a musical prodigy or anything.  She gets a pretty nice sound out of the beginner's instrument she's playing (can't remember exactly what it cost but was under £100 including bow and case), but it's 3/4 size and getting too small for her now - teacher keeps moaning about it.

    I'd like to get her something that's going to be significantly better quality, and money spent on musical instruments is always a good thing IMO, but £1000 is probably a bit over the top considering it gets taken to school and the like (and is to be looked after by an 11-yr-old :) ).  I'm certainly not against second-hand instruments - sounds like that may be the way to go if there's not much between cheap and £1000 new.
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  • rsvmarkrsvmark Frets: 1374
    Cool. If you get the best stentor you can (iirc there are three in the range) and get it re strung with dominant strings (that's important apparently) she should get a decent sound. It's the one after this that could induce wallet stress! Good luck!
    An official Foo liked guitarist since 2024
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  • DartmoorHedgehogDartmoorHedgehog Frets: 888
    edited February 2017
    Thanks - strings certainly made an audible difference on the violin she's playing now.  I restrung it when the original strings got manky, with some strings somebody recommended (may have been Dominant, I can't remember now - but I do remember thinking "eek these are expensive compared to guitar strings, there are only four of them and they're half the length") and it sounds more mellow than the original strings that I'd say were a bit harsh (although somebody else may say they had good projection!)

    We'll have a look into Stentor, and see if we can look at some slightly better second-hand instruments, if only for comparison.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15477

    delurk. I assume from your name you're from Devon, so may be worth calling Rebecca at here: http://www.vivaviolins.co.uk/


    she was really good when I got my student fiddle from her (helped get it all set up for me, fitted the shoulder and chin rest etc), and she carries a range of violins for different prices.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • Thanks @VimFuego - Barnstaple's not too far from me (about 1 1/2 hrs), worth looking into.
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  • fobfob Frets: 1430
    The last early-stages one we bought was a Gliga (Gem I think). I'm not sure I would say it was a significant step up from the equivalently priced Stentor but certainly thought it was better. We went against the advice I'm about to give you and bought blind from Elida Violins https://elidaviolins.co.uk/pages/gliga who had a 'give it a good try and if you don't like it return it' policy. I don't know if that's still in place. Certainly worth considering in your price range. I remember speaking to her on the phone and she seemed a little aloof but nevertheless gave sensible advice and didn't pressure to buy.

    However, 'play a bunch' is definitely the way to go and there are bargains to be had second-hand but it is a very strange market to get a decent feel of and easy to pay way over the odds. My advice would be to get your daughter to narrow down a few favourites and pay for her teacher to assess the shortlist - probably the equivalent of a single lesson.

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  • Thanks @fob - more useful stuff to add to the list :)
    Getting the teacher to look at them is something we'd considered, but there aren't any dealers closer than about an hour's drive (and the good ones are more like double that distance) so I don't know how practical that will be unless we can get a couple on evaluation.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    rsvmark said:
    We had this ...... Twice, once for each child. The answer depends on your budget but that's a statement of the obvious. The Stentor range was decent, and a top of the range stentor is fine for beginners if it's strung with dominant strings. But when we started looking there was a massive gap in the market. There is literally nothing in the £500 market, at least nothing that sounded better than the £200 stentor. To get any instrument that was a step change in quality, it went to over £1000 for new instrument. If your daughter is of the age requiring a full size, she is probably of a decent ability too. Mine were and we went for the best second hand instruments we could afford. Not only was the tonality in an utterly different league, it utterly inspired both kids to play more. Go to a reputable second hand dealer and pick one you like.
    I had exactly this experience in a well-regarded violin shop too - although slightly more specialist in that I was getting her a viola - but basically there was nothing between a Stentor and four figures. Even the second hand ones at slightly more than the Stentor didn't sound any better (or she thought even quite as good), so I was happy to buy her the new one and forget about about the depreciation… particularly as they were very fair about the trade-in price for her old 3/4-size one.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • bob21bob21 Frets: 170
    Sorry - a little late to this - much good advice already.
    I used to be fairly good at Violin, and have been through this a few times - currently have a mid 20thC German, though was involved in the purchase of a gorgeous 17thC German violin a couple of years ago, which was beautiful!

    If you need to buy new for whatever reason, the top-end Stentor stuff is plenty passable. Like anything, strings makes a massive difference (buy dominant, everybody does, until you get into the crazy £200 a set stuff). Set up helps too - ideally get it from a reputable dealer who can help make sure it's going to work for the player.

    Having said that.... If you can, buy second hand. You will get a significantly better instrument for the price - and as a bonus, it will (hopefully) be nicely played in - much like decent acoustics, they mellow out over time. A nice instrument is quite achievable from a decent dealer second hand for £500 - certainly enough for most students. As always when buying second hand - remember bows are interchangeable!!! Try several bows on the same violin, they sound and feel different.  (This is another bonus of buying from a good dealer, second hand)

    A good dealer should be willing to let you take a violin or two home to try (and show/play with teacher!) - this is very worthwhile, because obviously you never play at most comfortable in the shop, and it's great to hear it in some different settings to get a feel for it. My friendly local dealer has packed me off with £3k of violins to take home before!! (Sadly he's in Suffolk, a long way from you!)
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  • olafgartenolafgarten Frets: 1648
    My Friend who is pretty good plays an Eastman Concertante, cost him around £450 iirc.
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  • Thanks @bob21 - not too late :)
    I agree buying used is definitely the most sensible option if we can find some (when I said "needs a new violin" in my original post I meant "another" rather than necessarily bought new).  We've had a few dealers recommended to us so will be going on a bit of a trip soon to have a look at what they've got (unfortunately they're all an hour or two away in different directions).

    Regarding playing in the shop, my daughter is pretty good with that - she's quite happy to play in front of people, even when we bought her current cheap 3/4 a few years ago she was happily playing a few to see which one she preferred.  But obviously this time there's more money involved and the decision is slightly more important than it was with a £100 instrument, so borrowing a couple for a bit would be very useful if the dealers are up for it.

    One good thing about all this research is that I've learnt things about violins that I had no idea about before - like different bows making a difference... surely it's just a stick to drag the hair across the strings ;) 

    Anyway, hopefully we can find her something nice but not too valuable to be owned by an 11-yr-old :)
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  • DartmoorHedgehogDartmoorHedgehog Frets: 888
    edited April 2017
    OK, quick follow-up on this as people have been so helpful...

    After some trying of various violins in shops, we were in Brighton for the week visiting family, so while we were in civilisation we did a quick music shop tour.  Turns out the Brighton branch of Hobgoblin had a good stock of used violins and the guy in there was extremely enthusiastic and helpful.  Told him what we were looking for and we ended up trying a good number of them (all used), up to a £1500 one (that sounded nasty IMO!).  Lots around the £700 mark that sounded very nice, but the one that really stood out was a late 19th century copy of a Nicolaus Amatus violin.  It had had some sort of "relicing" at some point in its life (dark lacquer and fake cracks) that may have put some people off, and a couple of fine tuners missing, but my daughter and I love the look (it really looks ancient and very cool).  Sounded as good as any of the £700 instruments (and better than a lot of them), and they were only asking £300... so we bought it

    Dropped into a violin specialist in Lewes later in the week, who replaced the fine tuners and did a quick setup and generally agreed we'd bought well (phew!) (and refused to charge us - so I bought a set of strings from him) and it plays superbly.  Absolutely massive improvement in tone from her beginner's instrument.

    So all in all a successful result.  Thanks for all the suggestions along the way.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15477
    bargain, and with the savings you'll be able to ugrade the bow at some point. And mebbe make a downpayment on a new string.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • I've got a new set of strings anyway in case her teacher thinks the current ones are too bright and "folky" (although they sound excellent in my opinion).  If teacher is happy I'll hang onto the new set a bit longer - there's a fair bit of life in the ones that are on it.  A better bow is a possibility at some point - there were two in the case with the violin, one sounds better than the other but I've no idea if they are "good" ones or not.  Found a couple of mutes and a new tailpiece in the case lining as well, which is a nice bonus.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    DartmoorHedgehog said:

    It had had some sort of "relicing" at some point in its life (dark lacquer and fake cracks)
    Is that the equivalent of the 'belt sander job' on a guitar?

    :)

    I know violins have been "relic'ed" for a lot longer than guitars have, in fact - for at least a hundred years, if not a lot more… ever since 'old' violins became desirable really. So it may even have been made new like that.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • It's better than the belt sander approach :)
    It may have been finished like that from new, certainly looks like it was done quite a time ago.  Although all the other ones I've found on the web have a more normal finish.  It actually looks pretty cool - sort of "tiger bread" effect.  Here's a couple of pics of it:

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