Open back headphones... which pair, and is it easy to hear someone talking to you with them on?

guitarfishbay

This might seem like a dumb question but bear with me...

I still prefer tracking guitars and bass wearing headphones, it's just easier for me especially when double tracking a panned take.

However all my sets of headphones are closed back... and it is annoying readjusting every couple of seconds to listen to what my bandmate is saying to me after a take when he's operating the DAW.  He's a mumbler too which helps nobody especially when he's facing away from me.

So... is this a good excuse to pick up some open back headphones or is it really not that much of a difference (when no music is playing).  FWIW I've been using Beyerdynamic DT770s as they're really comfy to wear for long periods.  I also have a pair of Audio Technica M50X which I prefer the sound of but they're less comfy.

Comfort is a major factor for me.  I've got a moderately big head and biggish ears, ideally I don't want the pads to be touching my ears if possible so would prefer they go around my ear.  I'd also like a set that is subjectively pretty flat.

Been looking at the standard stuff...

- AKG K702 (cheapest)
- Beyerdynamic DT 880
- Sennheiser HD600

Any thoughts?

guitarfishbay

Hang on, the price of K702s just seemed to go up a lot... last time I looked they were £115 at G4M.  So it now looks like the AKG and Beyer are fairly similarly priced (around £160) and the Sennheisers would be the top of my budget (£230 at Amazon, more than I'd ideally spend)

GavRichList

Grado labs are supposed to be stunning. 

Winny_Pooh

I have the Beyer DT880s, You can hear almost everything happening outside of the cans and they bleed alot so beware if you are worried about a click etc leaking into nearby mics. If you are not tracking vocals they would be quite fine. They are less disorienting for long periods of listening.

I got a great deal at Inta audio, the only difference between the pro and regular models is the impedance so don't worry if the price for the non-pro seems too low.

http://www.inta-audio.com/monitoring-c109/headphones-c110/studio-headphones-c111/beyerdynamic-dt880-edition-semi-open-back-headphones-250ohm-p7979/

guitarfishbay

Winny_Pooh said:

I have the Beyer DT880s, You can hear almost everything happening outside of the cans and they bleed alot so beware if you are worried about a click etc leaking into nearby mics. If you are not tracking vocals they would be quite fine. They are less disorienting for long periods of listening.

That sounds ideal.  Are they comfy and which ohm model did you purchase?  I'm hoping they have the same pads as the 770s, looks that way on photos. 

I'm recording all guitar/bass DI anyway, the headphones are just my own preference, I find I play tighter with them on.

When it comes to vocals the singer will have a mic he can talk in to because he can apparently only project in a musical context.  Sometimes I can't even hear him over the road noise if he's in the back of a car on a shared journey when I'm driving.

merlin

I use a pair of AKG K701. 

Careful though if you're anywhere near a mic, they do bleed and you can get fizzy background sound. Depends on use, but for mixing and mastering I've found them exceptional. 

markv

I have a pair of Shure SRH1440s. I've found them very comfortable for long periods of time and I can hear people talking very easily, which can be annoying when the kids are around but are probably good for what you want. They also sound superb, I think, but I don't have a wide experience.

Hmm just looked and they do seem to have gone up quite a bit in price since I bought them though.

Sporky

I have the closed back version, the SRH1540s, but I've tried the 1440s and they'd be my first choice for opens. Lovely things.

Stuckfast

Yes open-back phones will make it fairly easy to hear what's going on in the room. You can't use them for overdubbing acoustic instruments or vocals, though, they're too leaky.

The Sennheisers have the closest to a 'flat' response if that's what you are after. The AKGs and the Audio-Technica R70x are somewhat 'scooped' and hype the sound a little. I like the Shure SRH1840 but they are a bit more pricey.

If you ever get a chance to hear the open-back version of the Audeze LCD-X, be prepared to want them very much indeed!

guitarfishbay

Having just spent another evening wearing the DT770s they're so comfy that I feel like the DT880s are the obvious choice.  I've never worn AKGs (other than a cheap pair owned by a bandmate) but the reviews I found comparing the two generally favoured the beyers in terms of comfort.

The Shure 1440s seem like they'll be great but they're £100 more than I can get DT880s for.  

ToneControl

guitarfishbay said:

This might seem like a dumb question but bear with me...

I still prefer tracking guitars and bass wearing headphones, it's just easier for me especially when double tracking a panned take.

However all my sets of headphones are closed back... and it is annoying readjusting every couple of seconds to listen to what my bandmate is saying to me after a take when he's operating the DAW.  He's a mumbler too which helps nobody especially when he's facing away from me.

So... is this a good excuse to pick up some open back headphones or is it really not that much of a difference (when no music is playing).  FWIW I've been using Beyerdynamic DT770s as they're really comfy to wear for long periods.  I also have a pair of Audio Technica M50X which I prefer the sound of but they're less comfy.

Comfort is a major factor for me.  I've got a moderately big head and biggish ears, ideally I don't want the pads to be touching my ears if possible so would prefer they go around my ear.  I'd also like a set that is subjectively pretty flat.

Been looking at the standard stuff...

- AKG K702 (cheapest)
- Beyerdynamic DT 880
- Sennheiser HD600

Any thoughts?

my HD650s are wonderful

I remember from years ago when I got them that there are some mods  for some HDs that are supposed to  upgrade them, here's the first one I found today, do some research and see what you think:
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/49633-sennheiser-hd600-modification-for-people-looking-at-the-hd650s/

Sporky

guitarfishbay said:

Having just spent another evening wearing the DT770s they're so comfy that I feel like the DT880s are the obvious choice.  I've never worn AKGs (other than a cheap pair owned by a bandmate) but the reviews I found comparing the two generally favoured the beyers in terms of comfort.

The Shure 1440s seem like they'll be great but they're £100 more than I can get DT880s for.  

For me the Shures are worth the extra - not knocking the Beyers which are a very decent headphone (and an industry standard for good reason) but the Shures are comfier on my enormous misshapen head, and to me they sound just a bit better in terms of balance and musicality.

Also I can get a ridiculous discount on the Shures.

guitarfishbay

This is interesting (edit - it will be once I figure how to post it)

guitarfishbay

Here we go.  Using - http://graphs.headphone.com/

Open back headphones 



Closed back

guitarfishbay

With the open headphones I'd be a bit concerned those Shure 1440s would get fatiguing.  Mostly because of the 2-4k bump, that's where a lot of potentially fatiguing stuff happens in distorted guitars.  They also look comparatively thin on the low end, which wouldn't be my preference.

It looks like the Beyers are going to be most relaxed in that area which will probably translate to them being the least fatiguing over longer sessions, for me anyway.  The forward high end doesn't bother me too much, I don't find the 770s too harsh as long as the music itself isn't too harsh.

@sporky looking at the second graph those 1540s look like they should be a nice headphone to listen to.  Not cheap though!  
Not surprised at the difference between the 770s and M50x as the treble is vastly different.  I don't mind the brightness of the Beyers but it is quite different to my monitors (which are Focals).  In some ways it is very useful as it shows up mistakes in comping/editing a bit more easily, any clicks or pops etc.

Sporky

I wonder if it was the 1840s I tried.

guitarfishbay

Possibly.  They look a bit better balanced, but again are in the £4xx price range, way more than I'd spend right now.  Here's a graph of the Shures.  Of course the graphs don't tell the whole story, and comfort is always going to be a personal thing with headphones and graphs won't tell you that!



I found scan.co.uk are selling the DT880 Pros for £159 so have put in an order.  I decided to go for the 880 Pros as the headband looks the same as on the DT770 Pros, the Premiums are different.  Apparently the Pros have a tighter clamp than the Premiums, and as far as I'm concerned the comfort on the 770 Pros is excellent and they stay in place great.

Also the 880 Pros have a coily cable, which is quite nice when you're naturally a bit clumsy and tend to stand on things.

Sporky

guitarfishbay said:

Possibly.  They look a bit better balanced, but again are in the £4xx price range, way more than I'd spend right now.

That's understandable. I think mine cost me £240 and that took a lot of teeth grinding to go for. Now I've got them I think they were a bargain, but even at that price they're a lot more than the Beyers, which are very fine headphones.

ROOG

I have a pair of Sony MDR-1000X, these are closed back and include noise cancelling, but the system includes an 'ambient voice' mode which allows the sound of people speaking through. Its very effective. The sound quality is pretty good too!  

guitarfishbay

DT880 Pros turned up.  So far so good, nice and comfy, you can hear someone talk to you with them on.  They are a little treble forward but that's fine, they're not harsh or sibilant unless the music is.  Don't think I'd have wanted any less bass so overall probably the right choice of headphones for me.

Significantly different sounding low end to closed headphones I'm used to.  Not bad - it's nice and punchy but less weighty, if that makes any sense.  Like where the attack of the bass and kick drum are seem easier to pick out, but there's not the same pleasing rumble going on.

Cirrus

Some of that could be a breaking-in thing. Albeit closed back headphones, but the low end on my SRH840 changed significantly for the bigger and better after a couple of months of tracking with them.