Who uses a sound-guy vs mixing from the stage?

TimmyO

Just wondering who uses/doesn't use a sound guy - and what the reasons for that are? Cost/knowing someone/not needed/<other comments>

:-) 

octatonic

If given the choice I'd always use a sound guy.

JayGee

If given the budget I'd always use a sound guy. Big overhead on pub covers band money though...

TimmyO

What do you/would you expect to pay someone to do your sound in a pub type gig? 

John_P

I quite often do the sound myself and then have someone I trust look after the foh mix from an iPad - means they can turn up later and just do minor tweaks if necessary.  

Its hard to to find someone that really knows what they are doing without spending at least 100 and more like 150+ if they are bring all the gear.  

Danny1969

In the 6 bands I play in 4 of them use a sound guy, normally desk our front at decent venues or  set up the desk by the side of the stage and use an iPad to mix it in small pubs

Cost wise it's normally either a even cut or £50 to £100 depending on what band

These days digital desks make setting up quicker and recallable which is a bonus but the learning curve on the desk is harder to begin with if your showing someone from scratch

not_the_dj

From the stage for us (ha ha, stage...usually the corner of a pub with the pool table pushed out the way!).

Having a wireless has really helped as I can now go out into the room during soundcheck.

TimmyO

For those who DIY, would you consider paying someone to come and use your rig, help you set up, soundcheck, and mix FOH if you knew someone reliable ?

If you would, what would you consider paying?

not_the_dj

Arrrrrr, you have a cunning plan!

TimmyO

Not cunning lol

Just considering it as pocket money plan

Danny1969

One of the bands I'm with ... The Italian Job are looking for an engineer . Last guy we had ran off with a tall blonde and quit the band.  The money's only £40 to £60 a gig though and it's around 50 gigs a year so a fair commitment . 

Personally I would always prefer to take a smaller cut and pay for someone to mix than struggle myself onstage 

TimmyO

Me too - it always surprises me how many bands don't do/have it

not_the_dj

It's a cost vs benefit thing for us.

Our gigs go down well, people dance and clap, we get repeat bookings, and we've had an increasing gig diary for the last few years up to a level we're happy with (it's a hobby for us all, so we're balancing work and family life).

So for us I just don't see the benefit. Sure it'd be a "nice to have" but I don't see it getting us any more gigs and they'd be less of the takings. So it's a no from me.

Horses for courses though, I can certainly see there is a benefit, but I can't see the justification in our situation.

EricTheWeary

If you are playing pubs and your set up is drums, back line and vocal PA there seems to be a limited amount any sound guy/ gal could do anyway ( ie as the only thing they can adjust post soundcheck is the vocal). 

Danny1969

I think having some good people on sound and lights certainly helped my main band Superheroes take a step up to better gigs and more money. The guys we use are very good at making us sound more professional than we are ... It's basically the same tricks you use in the studio... Good compression on vocals, delays time matched to the drummers tempo ... Gates on drums .. Lot of cuts in EQ to make room for the various instruments in the mix. 

What I like is I know they have my back .. If my backing vocal is a bit flat towards the end of the night they will dip it down . It's all about showing the band in a good light ... Highlight the best bits and hide the worse 

I do a fair bit of live mixing myself and I constantly ride the lead and backing vox to try and get things as good as poss. It's something that constantly needs adjustment as a high harmony vox needs much less level than a low one ... and I like to ride the effects returns so you don't notice them so much on quieter passages . It's all the same stuff you do in the studio generally 

ESBlonde

When i had my 6k rig and an 8 piece sould band we always had someone on the desk. Min £50 (my gear provided) and more if it wa a well paid function, they are an integeral part of a good band. the desk also had analogue comps and gates plus 6 Aux sends so enough for budding engineers to get thier teeth into, once I'd set the basics up.
Pubs are a different thing, we did few (4-5 a year) and everyone got £15 no exceptions. The by product being more weeding gigs that did pay. Of the three people we employed/used in the ten years, one now freelances professionally and is a wireless coms expert, one now has his own sound/light hire business and the other is no longer involved with the business. We tended to pick young enthusiasts and train them on the basics as well as our gear systems, the satisfaction and a little cash keeps them coming back.

TimmyO

EricTheWeary said:

If you are playing pubs and your set up is drums, back line and vocal PA there seems to be a limited amount any sound guy/ gal could do anyway ( ie as the only thing they can adjust post soundcheck is the vocal). 

<shudder> Get more than just vocal in the PA it *always* sounds better.

maltingsaudio

With the greatest respect to @TimmyO  the term "looking at a pocket money plan" fills me with dread. Your either part of the solution or part of the problem and looking at sound engineering as a pocket money thing explains a lot of the problems we have had aired on here about grumpy or absent sound men.

RocknRollDave

I play in a wedding trio and also dep for an almost identical band quite regularly too. In both cases, the sound is mixed by one of the musicians from an onstage vantage point...When I gig with my band, that falls to me to do.

As others have said, this is less than ideal. I have a good idea of what sound good in a mix, but I have no real idea of how to get it. In particular, our vocals could do with some polish from compression etc, but I haven't  a clue about such things...

On the plus side, we're good at keeping a lid on the volume, we have a good basic mix, I am sure...just could be so much better.

Strangefan

To me sound guys can make a good gig great, as long as they know what they're doing..... How ever. 

EricTheWeary

TimmyO said:

EricTheWeary said:

If you are playing pubs and your set up is drums, back line and vocal PA there seems to be a limited amount any sound guy/ gal could do anyway ( ie as the only thing they can adjust post soundcheck is the vocal). 

<shudder> Get more than just vocal in the PA it *always* sounds better.

We do a bit but it's still the basic set up for a lot of bands.