A fully MIDI controlled, analogue FX board...

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colourofsoundcolourofsound Frets: 393
edited March 2017 in FX
I was thinking, there are so many MIDI controlled pedals now, that you could build a board with the functionality of a modeller but the sound of analog.

It would be really expensive, but it could be done!

For example, with the release of Brothers, you could have a full Chase Bliss board and cover pretty much any sound you wanted; and you can control them all with their MIDI functionality, along with something like Disaster Area's MIDI switching units.

Fully recallable analogue effects. That seems like the dream to me.

It wouldn't even be impractically massive - you could have this fantasy board on a standard Pedaltrain 1 or 2.

Along with Chase Bliss, you've got Stone Deaf and Empress doing MIDI controlled analogue stuff.

No real focus here, just thinking aloud into the ether. Has anyone here done something like this? Any other companies that make MIDI controlled analogue effects? Is this practical or am I over simplifying?

EDIT: Reddit is useful: https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarpedals/comments/56jo37/pedals_with_full_midi_control/
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  • english_bobenglish_bob Frets: 5128
    Elektron's Analog Drive pedal seems to have been well received. 

    In theory, assuming the MIDI was implemented properly I can't see why it wouldn't work. I would imagine that a setup like that would be much more fulfilling if you were touring a fairly defined set of songs with fixed arrangements and sounds that you had completely dialled in.

    I could see it being pretty frustrating if you were more oriented towards songwriting/improvisation/experimentation, since all those programmed changes could well mean that your rig became quite "locked down" and difficult to get new sounds from.

    That, and there's stuff you can do with digital pedals that analog won't ever be able to duplicate. I wouldn't want to make arbitrary rules about what kind of pedals I was allowed.

    Don't talk politics and don't throw stones. Your royal highnesses.

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  • Elektron's Analog Drive pedal seems to have been well received. 

    In theory, assuming the MIDI was implemented properly I can't see why it wouldn't work. I would imagine that a setup like that would be much more fulfilling if you were touring a fairly defined set of songs with fixed arrangements and sounds that you had completely dialled in.

    I could see it being pretty frustrating if you were more oriented towards songwriting/improvisation/experimentation, since all those programmed changes could well mean that your rig became quite "locked down" and difficult to get new sounds from.

    That, and there's stuff you can do with digital pedals that analog won't ever be able to duplicate. I wouldn't want to make arbitrary rules about what kind of pedals I was allowed.
    For sure; I was just sort of thinking out loud really. The power in this type of setup would be that you could swap pedals in and out; and of course I wouldn't limit myself to analogue pedals if I were to entertain this sort of setup. As you say, some sounds you just can't get from analog; reverb being the most obvious example.

    I think I disagree about it being 'locked down' - in the Chase Bliss pedals, for example, the middle preset switch isn't a preset; that's the one that obeys the knobs. So if you were improvising/writing/experimenting either live or in the studio; you'd just set each pedal to be in 'live mode'. If you then found a combination you like; you can assign it to a MIDI function on your controller and it's instantly recallable. If I'm understanding the capabilities properly...
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  • english_bobenglish_bob Frets: 5128
    I think I disagree about it being 'locked down' - in the Chase Bliss pedals, for example, the middle preset switch isn't a preset; that's the one that obeys the knobs. So if you were improvising/writing/experimenting either live or in the studio; you'd just set each pedal to be in 'live mode'. If you then found a combination you like; you can assign it to a MIDI function on your controller and it's instantly recallable. If I'm understanding the capabilities properly...
    It would depend on what pedals you used, sure. I think you'd potentially have to deliberately build in the flexibility in.

    Don't talk politics and don't throw stones. Your royal highnesses.

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  • I've spent the last few years building my dream analogue board (with the exception of digital delays), got it all working with midi control and it's great...but alas, modelling won me over, it's infinitely more customisable - which is perfect for me (not necessarily for everyone else). Needless to say, my beloved pedals and the midi controllers will be shipped out fairly soon.
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    I've spent the last few years building my dream analogue board (with the exception of digital delays), got it all working with midi control and it's great...but alas, modelling won me over, it's infinitely more customisable - which is perfect for me (not necessarily for everyone else). Needless to say, my beloved pedals and the midi controllers will be shipped out fairly soon.
    Yup. Feel that pain. I love my pedals. But, helix.
    What's the point?
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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 7142
    Couldn't personally think of a less inspiring tool than a Helix, but it's entirely subjective. I'm sure they're superb, but I couldn't be less interested in them. 
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    Couldn't personally think of a less inspiring tool than a Helix, but it's entirely subjective. I'm sure they're superb, but I couldn't be less interested in them. 
    Intrigued - how come?

    It does a lot. I mean a lot and as it's so flexible with routing you can create sounds that would be tricky on a traditional board.

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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 7142
    Just the synthetic everything nature of it, menu diving etc etc. I'm sure it's relatively intuitive, but I mean look at my board... I like lots of knobs! Whheeeey. 
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  • Jonathanthomas83Jonathanthomas83 Frets: 3466
    edited March 2017
    Couldn't personally think of a less inspiring tool than a Helix, but it's entirely subjective. I'm sure they're superb, but I couldn't be less interested in them. 
    I agreed with that sentiment up until I tried one. The irony is, I'm more creative now I have taken that step and feel more inspired than I ever did before. I think that's partly down to the fact that I'm no longer struggling to get the sounds I'm searching for. Like you said though, it's all subjective and I love your board, no wonder you're inspired! But I'd have to disagree with the Helix being uninspiring, it's not uninspiring for me :-)
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    Just the synthetic everything nature of it, menu diving etc etc. I'm sure it's relatively intuitive, but I mean look at my board... I like lots of knobs! Whheeeey. 
    Like @Jonathanthomas83 would have agreed until I tried one. The only m/fx Iv'e owned that has an intuitive front end. Possibilities are limited.

    Still, I do know what you mean. I still like my pedals for the gigs there is something very tactile about it.
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  • Lets try not to have a modelling vs pedals debate (again!) - I'm just wanting to explore this particular solution.

    So, @Jonathanthomas83 what was your setup pre-Helix? I'm interested.
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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 7142
    Don't discount CV control too, for what you're looking for. 
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  • @colourofsound here it is in all its glory...

    https://medium.com/@jonathanthomas83/built-my-dream-guitar-rig-now-im-selling-it-part-2-the-dream-rig-ce038e8f54fd#.3xsuj4zf8

    That's my tribute to some of the greatest pedals I've ever had the pleasure of trying.

    What I don't explain on that is that I'm running the delays (and reverbs) in a wet/dry setup and it sounded glorious.
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • sgosdensgosden Frets: 1993
    @colourofsound here it is in all its glory...

    https://medium.com/@jonathanthomas83/built-my-dream-guitar-rig-now-im-selling-it-part-2-the-dream-rig-ce038e8f54fd#.3xsuj4zf8

    That's my tribute to some of the greatest pedals I've ever had the pleasure of trying.

    What I don't explain on that is that I'm running the delays (and reverbs) in a wet/dry setup and it sounded glorious.


    Really enjoyed reading that :)



    back on topic - I like the idea of analogue effects with digital (midi controllable brain), it can potentially give the cork sniffers the sound they covet, yet still have the functionality and options of digital alternatives (strymons, SA, etc)

    @Colourofsound - what sort of controller would you use if you built this rig? G2 on a board or a full midi controller with the pedals safe in a rack?



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  • sgosden said:

    Really enjoyed reading that :)

    Thank you, sir. Very kind of you to say so :-)
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • @sgosden ;Crikey, no idea. The thing with this thread is that for me, it's a total fantasy, and financially impractical for me at least!

    But, to indulge in your question:

    I would have it all on the floor, with as few pedals doing as much as they possibly can. I'd probably use a Disaster Area Designs Looper/MIDI controller, as that has the best functionality that I've seen in a compact floor unit that has both normal loop switching and MIDI control. Either that or a Boss ES5/8. Yeah a G2 would also do the job but in my opinion there are much more compact boxes that do the majority of the things the G2 does for a fraction of the price.

    I'm not a fan of huge, overblown setups; for me it's guitar - board - amp and that's it. No racks or anything. The beauty of the Chase Bliss stuff in particular is their small form factor - whilst horribly impractical live (i'd be stomping both switches on CB pedals all the time!) I think they'd come into their own in a MIDI controller setup. You could have them on the top row of a Pedaltrain with your MIDI footswitch on the bottom and any routing boxes mounted underneath.

    Not sure how I feel about the 'cork sniffers' comment ;) - in all seriousness, it's about choice for me. I'd have digital pedals on a MIDI controlled rig like this too; it's the ideal world where you can pick and choose. As long as it supports MIDI ;)
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    Of course one of the limitations is how well midi is implemented on both controller and pedal. the chase bliss and empress stuff is a bit annoying as you require a converter box - but in any case you 1 would need a midi split box.

    So potentially 2 moog, 2 empress and 3 chase bliss is going to mean a split box, 1 empress box and 1 converted empress box for the chase bliss.

    You then need a a really good controller to program it all - given that boss have now released an editor for the ES series and that midi is really well implemented (and you can have 5/8 non midi pedals withe order switching and parallel mixing) I'd be doing that route.

    Doing this is a very expensive! (example moog mf104m + Empress + Chase Bliss + ES, boxes and PSU), will be heavy and a nightmare to program. I'm not sure I could face it and I think at one point or another I have had most of those pedals
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  • colourofsoundcolourofsound Frets: 393
    edited March 2017
    @Teetonetal ;;
    Yeah, for sure! So impractical. Chase Bliss make their own converter box now; basically a backwards version of the Empress. So you'd need one of each if you wanted both.

    I think restraint is the name of the game if you were to make this rig a realistic proposition. So, sticking to one brand of MIDI pedal, I think you could cover most bases with this setup:

    - 4x Chase Bliss pedals
    - Chase Bliss converter box (only takes 4 pedals, hence above limit)
    - Boss ES5
    - One or two non-MIDI pedals controlled by the ES5

    So i guess I'd have Brothers, Tonal Recall, Wombtone and Warped Vinyl, and then I'd supplement that with a Malekko Sneak Attack and a Neunaber Expanse + EXP. And maybe a Bitquest, because Bitquest.

    That's a pretty compact, recallable and versatile board, covering most bases I'd say.

    EDIT - even though that's more pedals than there are loops in the ES5, you could have all the Chase Bliss pedals in one loop and Bypass them via MIDI ;)
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 7801
    edited March 2017
    Not all analogue though.. reverb beyond spring will always be an issue. And the exp would piss you off as you can't control it from the es5.

    Then you end up with strymon or empress etc..
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