Inspiration vs plaigiarism

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NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
edited January 2018 in Making Music
Saw this article, which made me think, how much of a song are you allowed to copy? A single chord, a progression, the melody?
I'd guess that most folks are influenced subconsciously by the music they've heard and learned....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42602900

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  • NeillNeill Frets: 941
    As Tony Iommi once said, when you come up with your first riff the next thing to do is get a good lawyer.
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  • flying_pieflying_pie Frets: 1806
    The composer Stephen Schwartz is on the record saying he intentionally used the first 7 notes of Somewhere Over The Rainbow for the "unlimited" motif in the musical Wicked as a nod to copyright law joking that you get sued if you go any further. I'm not sure that would stand up in court but it's recognised that you can borrow about that amount of a melody and get away with it. I couldn't see that working if you were to alter only every 8th note from an established whole tune.

    Chord progressions tend to be well used throughout time in multiple genres and not really subject to successful plagiarism claims.

    But even then you might not be safe - the Pharrell/Marvin Gaye case ruling was ludicrous. It came down to them allegedly copying "the vibe". Under such circumstances The Ramones could sue almost every pop punk band there has ever been. 
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  • sweepysweepy Frets: 4158
    Just as Steely Dan should sue Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall pt2 Bears an uncanny resemblance to FM even the sax solo is lifted by Gilmour
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  • To be fair it does sound like Lana just recorded an even more miserable than Radiohead version and slapped some new lyrics on, without the redeeming feature of the heavy guitar line. 

    What was she thinking would happen?
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    Ask Ed Sheeran .....all his songs are essentially other peoples chords with his melody.


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  • Most of the time I think these things are a bit of a stretch - I don't think Noel Gallagher really ripped off Neil Innes, but I was (hypocritically, I suppose) glad to see Innes get some of the money; I certainly don't think Jimmy Page ripped off Spirit, and the Blurred Lines thing was laughable. But I was astounded by this - the whole verse is a carbon copy of the Radiohead song. 

    Does anyone know where she ripped the chorus off from? I mean, why bother only making up half a song?
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  • AlexCAlexC Frets: 2396
    Re the whole Del Ray / Radiohead case - please listen to this, as it would appear that Those Oxford boys took ‘their song’ from The Hollies in the first place.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LFa-wW_0kmU
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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    edited January 2018
    I'm  pretty sure anything I've ever written would be done for plagiarism, were any of my songs or pieces anywhere near good enough to be noticed. I don't think I've ever written anything where I've not thought a week or so later... Oh yeah that's from x or that bit sounds like y etc
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Wow LDR has basically just put her own lyrics over the Radiohead verse ! 

    I love the Hollies Air that I breath but I don't think Radiohead's Creep is a rip off ..... they both use the major third and then the 4 modulated to minor but that's an old trick a lot of bands used over the years
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Hmmm


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  • I prefer Lana Del Ray's version to be honest
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    sweepy said:
    Just as Steely Dan should sue Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall pt2 Bears an uncanny resemblance to FM even the sax solo is lifted by Gilmour
    No chance. Whilst FM was recorded as part of the Aja sessions it wasn't released until 1978 as part of a film soundtrack and at the time it had a Walter Becker guitar solo as the outro. The sax solo came on a later release. Floyd had recorded a demo of the wall in 1978 before the Dan track was released.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256
    Danny1969 said:
    Wow LDR has basically just put her own lyrics over the Radiohead verse ! 

    I love the Hollies Air that I breath but I don't think Radiohead's Creep is a rip off ..... they both use the major third and then the 4 modulated to minor but that's an old trick a lot of bands used over the years
    Oh I dunno Danny, the verse progression and the vocal melody are almost identical. Even the phrasing is similar. Anyway, Radiohead agreed to credit some of the Hollies as co writers.

    I didn't know any of this until I read the article yesterday. All good songs whatever.
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  • Col_DeckerCol_Decker Frets: 2188

    I'm  pretty sure anything I've ever written would be done for plagiarism, were any of my songs or pieces anywhere near good enough to be noticed. I don't think I've ever written anything where I've not thought a week or so later... Oh yeah that's from x or that bit sounds like y etc

    I'm in the process of ripping off the Damien Rice song 'Delicate' for a new tune for band. I didn't intentally nick his rift and melody line but its what came out of my fingers and suits my lyrics. I'm not bothered though, when we get signed I'll just give him credit or maybe leave it off the album altogether.

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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Pretty sure some of these would have been licensed but others wouldn't have been. So where is the line? 

    Also interestingly radiohead feature twice on this list...


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  • Talent borrow.....genius ?

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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Talent borrow.....genius ?
    One direction?
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    The minor drop


    Inspired....



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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    Oh, I just saw that Radiohead aren't suing Lana del Rey now.
    They are just asking to be credited with it and for the royalties to be shared.
    Just like the deal that they have with the Hollies.

    ...in case anyone actually still cares
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  • Jez6345789Jez6345789 Frets: 1756
    It dont really matter unless you are making money out of it. 

    I liked the fact that Donald Fagan was a huge Keith Jarret fan and saw Gaucho as his homage to the master only to be sued. 

    As for Lana Del I like her but I think she is running short of tunes as there is another song on here latest album Groupie Love that I keep hearing the Trains from Brazil melody in. 

    It all comes to a limited number of notes and what is popular with the human ear.
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