Sorry Guys, I'm sure this question has been posted before so I apologize for bringing it up again! I'm feeling confused about the minor pentatonic 5 shapes. The shapes themselves I just need to memorize, and I understand that using the low e string as a guide I can easily find where to start with the 1st shape, for example, the 5th fret on the E string for A minor pentatonic, etc. but staying in A minor how do I know where to play the other 4 shapes if I want to expand and play up the neck. I've hunted high and low but nobody seems to mention this. I have charts which show certain layouts, for example, I have one showing the 5 shapes in E minor, and it shows starting the 1st shape at the 12th fret, being obviously an E note, the 2nd shape starting on the 3rd fret, the 3rd shape starting on the 5th fret, the 4th shape starting on the 7th fret, and the 5th shape starting on the 10th fret. What is it that determines where the other 4 shapes are positioned after the 1st shape is placed on the root note along the E string? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I'm trying to get my head around why something happens, rather than just memorizing shapes, etc.
Cheers, Hansi
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The way I originally “got it” is as bellow.
Take the minor pentatonic below (its in G)
Pattern 1 is a very similar "shape" to Pattern 4... learn these two patterns first.. till you know them blindfolded...
And now for the big secret reveal... once you have learnt p1 and p4, you only have to learn the where the notes are for the second part of position 2:
you now know the minor pentatonic across the whole neck and it’s easy to link them up.
Cheers, Hansi
eg there is a C at the 3rd fret of the A string, so pattern 4 will work at the 3rd fret.
Its the A minor pentatonic scale across the whole neck, starting with the open strings/nut.
then compare the pic with patterns as below (I have changed this to be A minor also)
You should be able to see how the various "patterns" fit with the scale.
Another good way to learn and be able to "break out" of the box patterns is to learn the scale on each string going up the neck rather than a "box" across the neck... If that make sense
I’ve embellished @Poopot’s diagram:
http://i.imgur.com/P45ZpuJ.jpg
Green is pattern 1, red is pattern 2, etc. Each pattern starts where the previous one left off. They share the adjoining note. So look at the 6th string. The upper note in Pattern 1 is fret 8; if you look at Pattern 2, the bottom note on the 6th string is ALSO fret 8. This is how the patterns are linked. Each pattern uses two notes per string, and each pattern shares its upper frets with the next pattern’s lower ones - this applies to every string.
Penta means 5, so by playing 2 notes per string and using the top frets as the next pattern’s bottom frets, you climb the whole octave in 5 patterns. In my picture you could add a black circle on the left of the green, identical to the black one one the right but an octave lower, proving that you climb a whole octave in 5 moves, using the pentatonic scale.
This is for A minor penta. If you start on the 8th fret for C minor penta, you just have to move everything up 3 frets.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
This will take some practice, but it's not laborious in the same way as learning shapes is. Play along with something -- a song, backing track, or loop -- and see if you can move up and down the neck on a single string using the pentatonic scale by hearing before thinking where you are in the scale. Go slowly, and sing along. After a while you'll be able to speed up. Then start crossing between two strings, moving up and down. Again, try to do it without looking or thinking about shapes or intervals. I think you'll surprise yourself with your ability to pick it up pretty quickly.
By the way, I'm not saying don't learn shapes -- shapes are really important -- but this is another approach which can be liberating. Good luck!
But I also know how these things join up and relate to each other.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
The end-game here should be to get to a point where you can play any melody you can imagine, so what you're ultimately trying to do is know what each fret within the scale will sound like. That comes from playing with the notes within the patterns, rather than thinking about the patterns and positions themselves. Try and learn where the notes themselves are (root, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th in relation to whatever key you're in) then you can play those no matter what position you're in.
And don't be afraid to get it wrong either - knowing what sounds wrong is a big part of learning how to make it sound right before you pluck the string
Start off with just knowing how to play the first 3 strings of the pentatonic - don’t go any further, just memorise that famous one octave pentatonic scale A to A pattern /fingering (e.g. 5 8, 5 7, 5 7 pattern)
once that’s memorised, which I’m sure you know already, then we are going to move it across the the other / higher strings as well, and this is the key :
you can use that exact same pattern from ANY A on the neck (plus one little rule to remember) (or any other note for that matter)
(the reason why the guitar neck confuses most people is the bloomin B string.
Move from the 5th fret of the low E string to the open A next string over and they re the same note (as you know). Same with AtoD DtoG, BtoE, BUT from GtoB you have to move to the 4th fret on the G string to get the same B note. This buggers everything up and is the cause for all these myriads of scale patterns diagrams that you have to remember and most people can’t).
so here is how you don’t have to memorise them ...
The only little simple rule is that : when you move from the G string to the B string, move the simple pentatonic pattern up 1 fret,
and then just carry on from there with the standard pattern from the shifted new fret location Remember to move the pattern - this means you don’t have to remember fret numbers so just ignore them and just keep the pattern ,
so, just a simple 3 string pattern and a simple rule for one string only.
let’s test this : A minor pentatonic from 5th fret on low E string (you know this)
A to A : frets 5 8, 5 7, 5 7 on the 3 strings E A and D
so the 7th fret on the D string is also an A (because you just ended up there)
So let’s start the same pattern from there and do A to A using our standard pattern and rule -
A to A : frets 7 10 D string, 7 9 G string, 8 10 B string (because we used the rule, so the pattern shifted up a fret)
or or let’s try from the 12 fret on the A string -
A to A : frets 12 15 A string, 12 14 D string, 12 14 G string (no rule needed because no B string used)
or following straight on from that one -
A to A : frets 14 17 G string, 15 17 B string (the rule used) 15 17 E string
so now you can ignore trying to remember 5 patterns and where they start and on which note.
If you start playing that simple pattern and rule from all the A notes all over the neck you will find out a miraculous thing ....... and that is that without having to memorise them, you are already playing all the 5 shapes !
So remember, one 3 string pattern and 1 simple rule only
it reads complex the way have written it above, I think, cos I’m no good at graphics on here
but this simple learning point took me from playing on on,y the first 3 frets for everything to going all over the neck with major scales and all the modes of the major scale inside a day !
good luck
PS the same rule applies to any scale you want - take a 3 string pattern of any scale, from any note (irrespective of whether it is the root) and away you go : 3 string pattern and the B string rule
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.