Reidys says "no more rosewood" from Fender on *most* models

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WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 3257
edited April 2017 in Guitar
https://www.reidys.com/blog/rosewood-no-more-fender-cites-1901/

Going to ASS-U-ME that does not include the Custom Shop, but USA and imports...
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 13224
    Pau ferro is nice though.

    I got an Urge 2 (Stu Hamm sig) with that.



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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 7407
    edited April 2017 tFB Trader
    I heard a rumour of this a few days ago and this included the option of ebony - watch this space on that

    I've had 2 r/wood Custom Shop Strats delivered today - shed loads on order inc a few Custom Orders for customers - all due to arrive over the next few months in dribs and drabs

    Just a thought, but if they can still get rosewood timber into the USA, or indeed use up their remaining storage/stock of rosewood, then they can keep it all for USA sales only and not worry about any messing about with additional cites for overseas

    I've just had 2 x C/Shop models arrive today - USA export cites was granted in Dec 2016 - it took a further 3 months for EU import cites to be authorised - I here there are 5 large containers of stock (sat in Holland) that the authorities are going through bit by bit - this sitting around is costing Fender money - they can't invoice the dealer until goods are actually ready for stock - so a serious reduction in cash flow, even if it is just a short term impact
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 3257
    More info: Peach Guitars has just said that it's not quite as bad as Reidys is saying - that the new Pro series and AVRIs will still use it (where applicable) but that Elite and all Mexican models will no longer use it. 
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  • ChrisMusicChrisMusic Frets: 1121
    So where does that leave the concept of managed plantations and long term investment in sustainable resources.  There appears to me to be an unhealthy potential for backfiring on the whole environmental protection agenda, in the way this has been introduced.  India, amongst others must be spitting feathers   ~:>

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  • RichardjRichardj Frets: 1538
    I was saddened, but not surprised, that the Reid's post is pretty much a scare mongering sales ploy.

    'Buy NOW from us as you won't be seeing any more' kind of thing. Low standards.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 7407
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    Whitecat said:
    More info: Peach Guitars has just said that it's not quite as bad as Reidys is saying - that the new Pro series and AVRIs will still use it (where applicable) but that Elite and all Mexican models will no longer use it. 
    logical - and I dare say more info to follow - Yet part of the advantage of Fender having different production lines and different price points is a 'hand me down' policy for reject wood - ie rosewood that is not good enough on a Strat Elite can be used on a Strat Pro etc - Not saying this applies to all woods that Fender use, but it does mean no 'wastage'

    I suspect that Fender will still run rosewood for lower cost models from the USA/Mexico, but offer them for sale only in the USA as this gets rid of any cites issues required for sales to the EU or elsewhere in the world
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 3257
    Wouldn't it be just as hard/annoying to get finished guitars containing rosewood from Mexico to the US as it would be to get them from the US to anywhere else? 

    Can envision rosewood on USA-only models (like PRS does with the majority of their Brazilian rosewood) but anytime you introduce another border it seems to me it would make it that much more difficult. 
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 7407
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    Whitecat said:
    Wouldn't it be just as hard/annoying to get finished guitars containing rosewood from Mexico to the US as it would be to get them from the US to anywhere else? 

    Can envision rosewood on USA-only models (like PRS does with the majority of their Brazilian rosewood) but anytime you introduce another border it seems to me it would make it that much more difficult. 
    I hear what you are saying and in truth I don't know how it works concerning USA to Mexico or vice versa - factories are close yet different countries - Further more the threat of the Trump policy has still to come into play if it goes ahead - Interesting times for appropriate management teams

    and they still have to get the raw wood from India to the USA and/or Mexico 
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  • dindudedindude Frets: 7041
    I think the end (or vastly reduced use) of a rosewood option is pretty sad news.

    @guitars4you - what's your retail experience of people's preference at the higher end of maple vs rosewood boards on Fenders out of interest? My completely unfounded belief is that rosewood boards outsell maple currently, I may be very wrong.
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  • GavRichListGavRichList Frets: 5096
    I personally much prefer rosewood boards to maple... so I'm glad I've just picked up my AV65 which is likely to be my last guitar in a good while. 
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  • riscadoriscado Frets: 180
    edited July 2017
    ...
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  • mellowsunmellowsun Frets: 2417
    Wondered if this is related to the sudden flurry of interest in my Custom Shop rosewood Strat, which I've decided to keep for now.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 7407
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    dindude said:
    I think the end (or vastly reduced use) of a rosewood option is pretty sad news.

    @guitars4you - what's your retail experience of people's preference at the higher end of maple vs rosewood boards on Fenders out of interest? My completely unfounded belief is that rosewood boards outsell maple currently, I may be very wrong.
    On my Custom Shop sales I bet it is 2/3 to 1/3 - that is r/wood to maple  - that is on Strats   - maybe even 3/4 to 1/4

    Yet on Tele's I bet it is reverse

    But Strats outsell Teles by again 2/3 to 1/3 maybe 3/4 to 1/4
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  • McTootMcToot Frets: 1416
    I'm still amazed they get so many guitar fretboards out of that spiky bastard of a bush in my front garden...



     ;) 

    Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder


    My trading feedback  - I'm a good egg  ;) 

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  • Strat54Strat54 Frets: 1508
    edited April 2017
    A few random thoughts;

    - Crafty old Mayer, no wonder he got PRS to make him a Strat.

    - Best sales ploy this year. There'll be a queue outside the dealers tomorrow as we panic buy like the great bread and sugar shortages of the 70's.

    - Maple, Hendrix, Gilmour, Clapton, Knopfler, Holly, Stevie Ray all sounded just as great when they played maple neck Strats.

    - Pau Ferro, Ebony, are all great alternatives, only the cork sniffers are going to snort at them.

    - Fender are financially a long way up shit creek, no wonder they are scrambling for alternatives as rosewood as CITES slow down their cash flow.

    - Wonder how much the prices will rise between now and the END! 

    - Would Coda be unhappy if I bought all 35 of their rosewood Custom Shops tomorrow? It might be a better investment and return than the bloody Natwest give me on my money.

    - I bloody hate rosewood boards anyway.

    - We're on the verge of WWIII, all this won't matter as that nuke approaches the 51st state.
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 3257
    African Blackwood is a actually a true rosewood...
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  • Adam_MDAdam_MD Frets: 3416
    I'm not that bothered there's more than enough rosewood board fenders which will turn up on the secondhand market for everyone several times over.   
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  • Jez6345789Jez6345789 Frets: 1355
    Cynical bit of marketing if you ask me, I am sure Fender are hurting but once the system is in place it will work just fine. 

    Totally stopping buying wood from  consider managed sustainable sources will only put more strain on the rosewood as that loss of income will need to be recovered. perhaps via blackmarket sales. None of this stuff is very enforceable on the ground in emerging economies. 

    If there are better sustainable woods that work such as Pau Ferro then they certainly should be used instead of on low priced instruments but this whole thing has become a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. Which ultimately the prestige Asian furniture market. 
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  • RoxRox Frets: 2136
    I await the "RARE pre-CITES Fender ROSEWOOD board GUITAR" EBay listings...
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  • tony99tony99 Frets: 4246
    How will this effect us middle of the food chain bedroom noodlers?
    Bollocks you don't know Bono !!
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  • WezVWezV Frets: 10295
    I suspect there is not enough pau ferro to make it a long term viable alternative.  Plantstiom grown rosewood may be closer, but has been tarred with the same brush as all other rosewood.

    Maple is the most sustainable fretboard and neck choice, ash and alder are fairly sustainable too. fender will always be able to offer authentically vintage woods even without rosewood.  
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 3827
    I just don't get the reasons for the CITES restrictions on the use of rosewood for guitars.  The total used worldwide for guitar production must be pretty small.  I would support a policy of planting 50 trees for every single tree cut down - and having this planting recorded and monitored - but my understanding of the CITES controls is more about paperwork than anything else.  I could be wrong of course.....
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • RabsRabs Frets: 1970
    tFB Trader

    I think Baked Maple would be a great alternative...

    I had it once on a Gibson and it was really nice.. The one I had looked very similar to Rosewood but felt  smoother too the touch.....

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  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 4143
    tony99 said:
    How will this effect us middle of the food chain bedroom noodlers?
    You'll be OK, so long as your Chopsticks aren't made from Rosewood ;)
    "We don't want more people from Sheffield flying away on cheap Holidays" Oliver Letwin 2011.
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 21251
    Presumably that Custom Shop all-Rosewood George Harrison Tele is now worth more money, than the most money you could ever imagine, in the whole history of money?
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 21776
    Presumably that Custom Shop all-Rosewood George Harrison Tele is now worth more money, than the most money you could ever imagine, in the whole history of money?
    [YES I know I'm not supposed to be here.. but this is a perfect storm tho - no more rosewood fenders and talk of money by @richardhomer ??!!]

    I heard Terry Morgan has stockpiled a whole shed worth of Rosewood so he can build exact copies of Mexican Strats and Teles with rosewood boards - right down to the very last little detail. Tis True. Heard it on TGP.
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 1846
    edited April 2017 tFB Trader
    Wait until everyone switches to ebony, that'll be next for cites along with whatever the big makers choose to plunder

    Has this stopped all the cheap Chinese shit coming over now, chibsons could actually go up in value 
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 3257
    Have read elsewhere that ebony is a probable target already for the next CITES convention in 2018...
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  • DanielsguitarsDanielsguitars Frets: 1846
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    Whitecat said:
    Have read elsewhere that ebony is a probable target already for the next CITES convention in 2018...
    It's the natural progression as the big makers find other alternatives

    I hate to think how much rosewood is and was wasted on really crap guitars and the quantitys used over the years

    It's very sad, especially for small scale builders

    I hope I'm long gone before there is no more good wood available to build with
    www.danielsguitars.co.uk
    (formerly customkits)
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7739
    WezV said:
    I suspect there is not enough pau ferro to make it a long term viable alternative.  Plantstiom grown rosewood may be closer, but has been tarred with the same brush as all other rosewood.

    Maple is the most sustainable fretboard and neck choice, ash and alder are fairly sustainable too. fender will always be able to offer authentically vintage woods even without rosewood.  
    Wenge perhaps?
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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