Attenuators

ToonToon Frets: 57

Thinking of diving in.................. opinions please?

Powerbrake or Hot Plate or Rivera Rockcrusher or Dr Z Brake Lite or Weber?

Or none at all?...........discuss.

Seems to be a few different principles of operation too - what's best?

 


I am not young enough to know everything

0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
«1

Comments

  • bertiebertie Frets: 13564
    edited February 2014
    lot of price difference there as well nearly £300 between  them

    good place to start is by deciding exactly what do you want from it  ??  How much attenuation, what make and power amp you have, will it be used gigging, do you need line out.......variable load....... ability to mix cab load  
    just because you don't, doesn't mean you can't
     just because you do, doesn't mean you should.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ToonToon Frets: 57

    All fair questions........here goes :

    Marshall 2061X (a very loud 20W) into a 2061CX cab. Mainly looking at attenuation for home practice and rehearsals. Would probably not use at gigs. Don't need line out. Don't expect to mix cabs as very happy with 2061CX (8 Ohm). Probably looking to drive amp to break up and then lower Db level to achieve neighbour-friendliness.

    Bit confused about effect on valves and differences between resistance-based load and speaker motors and whatever magic Rivera claim to be their secret sauce. I looked a couple of their YouTube vids and decided that quantum physics was easier to understand. 

    I am not young enough to know everything

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • I haven't tried one yet, but this is apparently really good:


    Aside from the price, one of the great features is the fact that it can act as a dummy load - just attenuate it down to nothing, and you can use the MicSim output for silent recording (or the line out with impulses if you don't like the MicSim).

    It also allows you to have a mismatch between the amp's output and the impedance of the speaker.
    <space for hire>
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951

    Toon said:

    Thinking of diving in.................. opinions please?

    Powerbrake or Hot Plate or Rivera Rockcrusher or Dr Z Brake Lite or Weber?

    Or none at all?...........discuss.

    Seems to be a few different principles of operation too - what's best?

    It really depends on the amp, to a great extent… and some other factors.

    Powerbrake - very good, but discontinued and only available second hand.

    Hotplate - no. The company has gone bust and although supposedly still in operation is not honouring warranties. Even if you got one second hand and cheap, they're not really the best for Marshall-type amps - or not unless you deliberately use the 'wrong' impedance. (I can explain if necessary, but it's a bit technical and boring!)

    I thought the Dr. Z Brake Lite was basic to the point of crude, not particularly well-made and ridiculously overpriced. The full-size Airbrake was pretty good though - still simple, but better made and better sounding.

    I haven't been impressed with the smaller Webers either (Minimass, 25W or 50W version) - although the bigger ones seem to be good, but I don't have personal experience of them.

    Haven't tried the Rivera.

    Toon said:
    Probably looking to drive amp to break up and then lower Db level to achieve neighbour-friendliness.
    This is actually the wrong way round, and is why many people think attenuators always suck tone ;).

    Set the level on the attenuator roughly *first*, then dial the amp in for that volume - don't dial the amp in for a great full-volume tone and then expect the attenuator to simply make it quieter… it won't (and can't, really).

    Toon said:

    Bit confused about effect on valves and differences between resistance-based load and speaker motors and whatever magic Rivera claim to be their secret sauce. I looked a couple of their YouTube vids and decided that quantum physics was easier to understand. 

    There's not a lot of difference really, despite the claims for "speaker-like" loads. (There are a few exceptions, like Hotplates used on some Marshalls, where they can stress the valves more than normal.)

    Aside from the price, one of the great features is the fact that it can act as a dummy load - just attenuate it down to nothing

    It also allows you to have a mismatch between the amp's output and the impedance of the speaker.
    Actually, these are true with most or probably all attenuators. An attenuator set to the quietest setting is essentially a dummy load with a tiny bit of signal allowed to get through to the speaker, but it makes no significant difference to the amp.

    You can mismatch amp/speaker impedance with any attenuator as long as it's set to about -6dB or more attenuation (quieter) - where at least three-quarters of the power is going into the attenuator - the amp sees the attenuator as the load, not the speaker, so all you need to do is match the amp to the attenuator… the speaker is more or less irrelevant.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    Its is all a search for the Holy Grail! A 100W firebreathing stack in a bedroom which won't wake the chavvy next door. Can't be done. Sound always suffers. 

    Son and I (he plays, I solder) have spent many hours on this and have come to the conclusion that unless the SPL is around 85-90dB the tone is just wrong and that SPL is just about tolerated by  those in the house and others for a few hours in daytime/early evening. Mind you, we do not have anyone near us with young sproggs!

    For VERY quiet bedroom practice/recording, DI, EM outs, pedal OD or (cough) amps designed with onboard pre amp OD* are the way to go IMHO. 
    If you have a 50-100watter and want to "work it a bit" in a small live venue, then a power soak that chops it down to 5 or 10 watts is ok. 

    Of course there are soaks like the MotherLoad that are supposed to be very good indeed but very pricey.
    *Disloyal Son does not like the on-board OD sound on any of "their" amps tho he likes the clean side of the HT-20. He LOVES  the whole package of the A 15/30s but my pockets are not that deep!

    Dave.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • MtBMtB Frets: 921
    If you can do a little bit of DIY, the cheapest way would be to use an L-pad. 

    Don't know what the consensus is on the forum about these tho'. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    edited February 2014
    ecc83 said:
    Its is all a search for the Holy Grail! A 100W firebreathing stack in a bedroom which won't wake the chavvy next door. Can't be done. Sound always suffers. 
    I have said a few times that I am not really interested unless I can feel a bit of air moving. At that point it is probably better to spend more time looking for your next home than on an endless search for practice amps.

    If we were all sat around Brainstorming this topic, somebody (probably me) would come up with a ridiculous idea to have a Joe Bonamassa branded perspex cover that drops right over your 20 watt tweed combo (like a giant  food cover) so that the sweet spot for the amp and speaker is possible at home.
    image
    Of course - this idea is nuts!

    Isn't it? 



    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • Some attenuators work well with different amps but for marshall the powerbrake is excellent one to take off some volume (up to 12 noon on the knob). I've tried nearly all available and for me the PB and Aracom are the best. I've actually got three PB's if you want one? If you want if it doesn't work out you can return it if you don't mind covering the postage lmk.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • chillidoggychillidoggy Frets: 17136
    I'd be tempted to buy a practice amp rather than an attenuator.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ToonToon Frets: 57
    Thanks for all the comments everyone. I'm leaning towards not getting one.

    I am not young enough to know everything

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    I'd be tempted to buy a practice amp rather than an attenuator.
    I'd be tempted to buy a pedal rather than a practice amp.

    :)

    In my opinion, for low-volume playing, a pedal into a good larger valve amp (assuming the amp doesn't itself have an overdrive channel and/or a master volume that works well down to low settings) sounds better than a small amp, and better than the same amp attenuated.

    I like attenuators, but the thing they do least well is the thing that most people seem to want them for, which is to bring a loud non-MV amp down to quiet levels.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • BabonesBabones Frets: 1204
    Swart Night Light.

    I have owned the Dr Z Brake Lite and it's more suited to taking off a few db in a live setting and not so good for home playing. Even on its lowest setting, it won't take off enough even on a loudish 15w amp, plus the lowest setting doesn't sound very good, imo. 

    The Swart can do TV volume levels but can just take off a little if you want. Also and imo, i think the Swart sounds better. Plus it has cool blue and purple lights. The Swart is good for amps up to 22 watts.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • I use an Ultimate Attenuator Dual.. Fab piece of kit! Especially if using a plexi style amp that you want to crank then have set attenuation levels for both rhythm and solos! ;) Mark is a really nice chap too!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 3073
    Another vote for Swart Night Light. Great for home use.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11788

    I couldn't find any that were OK for me, tried THSs, Marshall, etc, in the end, an Isolation cab was the only answer

    Now you can also turn to AxeFx or Kemper though

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • samzadgansamzadgan Frets: 1471

    ICBM said:
    I'd be tempted to buy a practice amp rather than an attenuator.
    I'd be tempted to buy a pedal rather than a practice amp.

    :)

    In my opinion, for low-volume playing, a pedal into a good larger valve amp (assuming the amp doesn't itself have an overdrive channel and/or a master volume that works well down to low settings) sounds better than a small amp, and better than the same amp attenuated.

    I like attenuators, but the thing they do least well is the thing that most people seem to want them for, which is to bring a loud non-MV amp down to quiet levels.
    agree 200%! pedal with big amp on low volume always works nicer for me!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • John_AJohn_A Frets: 3775
    My JCM800 in to a Marshall powerbrake in to a 4x12 sounds pretty good at bedroom levels, but it really is a lot of expense for somthing that sounds 'pretty good', my £50 Roland Cube sounds pretty good too :)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    John_A said:
    My JCM800 in to a Marshall powerbrake in to a 4x12 sounds pretty good at bedroom levels, but it really is a lot of expense for somthing that sounds 'pretty good', my £50 Roland Cube sounds pretty good too :)
    The advantage is that the attenuator lets you get a range of sounds from pretty good at low volume up to great at volume where the amp by itself would still be too loud at the point it's starting to sound really good. The Cube sounds good at low volume but doesn't get any better when you turn it up (the opposite actually). So if you need to control the sound better at stage volume as well as home, the attenuator is still the better solution really.

    Personally I think that rig sounds better than a Cube at any volume, but that's just my opinion… and I know it's about ten times the size and weight as well!

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • MtB said:
    If you can do a little bit of DIY, the cheapest way would be to use an L-pad. 

    Don't know what the consensus is on the forum about these tho'. 

    DO THIS!!!
    How very rock and roll
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • My experience with attenuators is limited but I had good results with a Cornell Plexi 7 & a Weber Mini Mass, and also a homemade one with a Vox AC4. 

    Admittedly these are low wattage amps in the first place but it did made them useable at home whereas they were too loud without an attenuator. 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.