Note memory

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FuengiFuengi Frets: 2849
OK, so I sort of know the major & minor scales now, and know my root / thirds and 5ths. 

When I'm playing along to a chord progression or playing a melody line I want to stick to the active chord tones (mostly) because to my ears it sounds loads better than a random application of the scale.

I can currently only do this by cross referencing for several minutes before working out how to get between the correct notes: what's the chord progression / what's the notes of that chord / where are they on the fretboard / what's the next chord / what are the notes / how do I get there from here...

I'm sort of enjoying working these out but is there a shorter / different way, or will this become ingrained if I just stick at it? 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited October 2017
    I think it's more a question of tunes than mathematical formulae. Try and sing a beautiful tune that floats over the shifting harmonies underneath, then try and play it. Theory is good for explaining what's happening; it's ok at showing what will work; and it's very poor for making worthwhile pieces of artistic value. 

    Techniques such as shared chord tones and suspensions will help ease a tune through the various paths of the underlying harmony, but one wouldn't work out which notes are shared before using them - the theory mainly just explains that afterwards. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • wis for @viz but you could try practicing arpeggios over chord progressions and then try linking them up with scale tones (eg an Amin arp over an Am chord, then use the note G on the last quaver of the Am bar before going to an F arp over an F chord). As viz says, it won't get you to "music", but I think it might help with some practical disciplines.

    Try also: Am arp over both the Am and F chords (plus other combinations) you can create a different feel by superimposing one on the other. In this case you move from Am to Fmaj7.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • Dan_HalenDan_Halen Frets: 1646
    edited October 2017
    Take a simple progression e.g. something like just a I-IV and chuck it into a looper, record a loop in your DAW, find a backing track on youtube - anything so you can have it wrapping round over and over to practice on top of. Preferably at least a couple of bars of each chord at a time to give you time to 'prepare' for the chord change.

    If we take an example of A maj, the chords would be A and D.

    Play the along with progression but use variations of each chord that allow you to fret in the same place along the neck - e.g. play the A chord at the 5th fret using the common E shape and the D also at the 5th fret using the A shape. Do this until you're comfortable (which might only take a minute of so).

    Next, play around using the A major scale pattern beginning with the A also on the 5th fret. The A maj scale you are playing contains all of the notes of both chords - same frets and all.

    When playing over the A, you should try and focus on those notes that fall within the A chord that you played previously. When you move to the D, it's the notes from the D chord you should focus on. Any note from the A maj scale will work but the chord tones will sound the strongest.

    To emphasise the change and to give the feel that you're really following the chords, it's the different notes to really focus on i.e. when playing over the A, try and avoid the notes from the D chord. These would be D, F# and A. Obviously, avoiding the A is tricky, but try to stay away from the F# and D. Then when you move to the D, playing that D or F# will sound very strong.

    Also, vice-versa. When playing over the D, try and avoid playing the other notes from the A chord - the C# and E.

    All notes in the A maj scale are technically correct, but it's those differences that the ear picks up and really makes what you're playing fit.

    A really helpful thing to do - draw out 2 copies of the A maj scale right next to each other on the same bit of paper. On one, highlight (or different colour)  the notes from the A chord. Then, on the C# and E, put a big fat circle around them as well. On the other, highlight the notes from the D chord and put a big fat circle around the D and F#.

    This will really help you visualise the notes you need to be aiming for whilst you build up the memory.

    edit - Apologies if that's a bit long winded but it really helped me break away from just bashing the same scale and licks and start to focus on making what I was play really fit.

    To expand on the idea - when you're comfy, try it with different scale shapes in different parts of the neck. Add a 3rd chord. Just remember, baby steps is the easiest and best way to go.

    Hope this helps!




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  • First of all, you are showing wisdom in wanting to move your soloing away from random notes from a scale. Secondly there's a fair bit of brain pain in trying to solo over one chord, whilst working out what the notes are in the next chord and composing something to play over that chord. In the end it is down to regular practice of using chord tones, but there are a few"games" you can use as a practice tool.

     First one - sort out a chord progression (doesn't matter how long or short it is) - mostly a single chord per bar, but add the odd bar with two chords in it, if you want to. Go through this progression as slow as you need to just playing one note on beat one, or one and three if there are two chords in a bar. Restrict yourself to playing notes from a limited area of the fretboard - for example, from the Nut to the Fifth Fret. First go through just playing the Root Note of each chord, then go through just playing the Third of each Chord, then go through playing the Fifth, and finally after that go through playing the 7th. After that, try playing the full Arpeggio (I'm assuming the chords are 7th's at most) as Eighth Notes - this gives you a 2 beat break to work the next Arpeggio out!!
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8590
    Fuengi said:
    .... is there a shorter / different way, or will this become ingrained if I just stick at it? 
    There are other ways, but really it comes down to training your ears, your brain, and your fingers. So accept that, and make it fun.

    Here’s more games you can play over @ArchtopDave’s backing track.

    Play a melody over each chord, with one note per beat, using only notes from the chord EXCEPT that the fourth note in any bar has to be a note that’s in the next chord, but not the current one.

    Next, as before, but the fourth not is a semitone down from a note in the next chord.

    In both of these games you’re training yourself to think ahead and anticipate the next chord. You are also training your fingers in finding easy ways to move between chords. After a while, maybe a week, your fingers will start to find positions which work without you having to think about them.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11788
    Nigel Tufnel: It's part of a trilogy, a musical trilogy I'm working on in D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find. People weep instantly when they hear it, and I don't know why. 

    A bit of a diversion sorry, but in fact some people do find different scales have a different feel

    seriously, just do random series of notes, and arpeggios of chord notes, and find which ones sound good to you
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    Wise words @ArchtopDave!
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited October 2017
    Chord tones = stable, non-chord tones = unstable.

    As a reference, I also mentally track the position of the tonic (root), and dominant (fifth), so I can can go to the "home" or the "destination" notes at any point. If you are always aware of these notes, you can easily find the others too, and all music is a journey based around the 1 and 5 notes.
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • In addition to all the above methods I sometimes find taking a less knowledgeable approach for a few songs just to see where your fingers go helps.  Find a song that you know nothing about, put it on and see what you can find out about what key it's in and what sounds good when you just jam over it.   I usually find new ideas I probably wouldn't have as well as making new connections in my brain concerning scales, chords, song structure etc.... and then when I go back to the scholarly route I have more to work with.

    “Theory is something that is written down after the music has been made so we can explain it to others”– Levi Clay


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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    If you just play the notes that are "Theoretically" correct it will sound bland and boring. Use your ears.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • GuyBoden said:
    If you just play the notes that are "Theoretically" correct it will sound bland and boring. Use your ears.
    I don't think that is strictly true, especially if you are after capturing an particular style: to make it sound like that style of music you need to follow most of its rules. Whether someone else hears it as bland, boring or derivative is up to their own taste.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    I like to aim for the 7th of one chord sliding down 1 fret to the third of the next chord which is a 4th above the first chord. This chord sequence happens a lot in pop, jazz, rock and blues, eg Am D where I might play a long G at xx5xxx and slide it down to the F# at xx4xxx. Or I might play a long note bent up one semitone at xxxx7x and let it unbend back to the F#.
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 2849
    To my ears it almost always sounds better if there is some connection between underlying chord and notes. 

    Thanks for the tips, I'll try out some of those. 
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited October 2017
    Fuengi said:
    To my ears it almost always sounds better if there is some connection between underlying chord and notes. 

    That does help!
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • FuengiFuengi Frets: 2849
    I could have explained myself better! 
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