Modification advice sought for Yamaha Pacifica 611

Voxman

I like the P90 & HB configuration, and the guitar neck & comfort is great, but I've figured out why I blow hot & cold with this guitar:

1. I don't gel with the stock Seymour Duncan Humbucker - it's too woolly and not defined and crisp/punchy enough - through my Tonelabs it gets lost in the mix. 
2. The switching gear is too noisy & clunky - vol & tone pots, push-pull & 3-blade - too noisy and you don't feel that 'quality' smoothness in operation
3. The guitar is a little noisy with high gain too much hum, not just in P90 mode but also with the HB.   

So, I can either sell it or do some mods but I don't want to spend a lot of money on it. 

I'm open to suggestions re a replacement p/up (does this need to be 4-wire re coil splitting?) - still want it covered though (not open) so it looks the same, better quality switch gear (probably including a better quality jack socket too), and how to quieten it down.   

Roland

As someone who like fiddling with guitars I’d start by replacing the pots, copper lining the cavities, and connecting the copper to the earth with soldered wire. New or better quality pots can sometimes make the guitar sound brighter, so I’d pause at this point, and try the guitar before deciding whether to replace the humbucker.

Something to ask yourself is which pickup combination you will use, and how do you want to switch them. Push-pull is logical, and positive, but can mean two hand motions. A four- or five-way switch is one motion, and can be easier in a hurry.

A straight tap on a normal humbucker can sound thin. However you’ve got two other options, partial tapping like a PRS, or using a humbucker where one coil is wound more heavily than the other. 

drwiddly

Sound advice from @Roland.

I'm not a fan of most of the Seymour Duncan pickups I've tried but I think I would check/improve the shielding and replace the pots with CTS or Bournes and the switch and socket with  Switchcraft. Leave the pickups and see if those mods give the improvement you want.

If after that, the sound of the SD humbucker is still not doing it for you, have a word with Ash at Oil City to see what he can do for you.

You obviously like the guitar so, if it plays and feels great, it's worth doing some mods to get it how you want it. Bear in mind that mods don't usually increase the value if you decide to move the guitar on.

Funkfingers

I have the 611's cheaper brother, the 311H. I installed an open-bobbins Duncan Custom 5 Trembucker and American control electronics. Sounds fine through overdriven valve amplification. 

I agree that the stock PCB selector switch and pots are cheap 'n' nasty.

Voxman said:

I'm open to suggestions re a replacement p/up (does this need to be 4-wire re coil splitting?) - still want it covered though (not open) so it looks the same

Yes. Coil split wiring would require the necessary multi-conductor output cable to enable the wiring.

The Pacifica requires "F" polepiece spacing. Duncan calls theirs Trembucker.

Voxman said:

I don't gel with the stock Seymour Duncan Humbucker - it's too woolly and not defined and crisp/punchy enough - through my Tonelabs it gets lost in the mix. 

This could be because the output of the humbucker overwhelms the A/D converter in the VOX processor. I suggest that you try the guitar through other amplification and/or pedals before embarking on a round of modifications and expenditure.

It is also possible that the metal pickup cover is attenuating some of the high end detail.

HAL9000

Def upgrade the pots, switch, and wiring. It seems that as you go higher up the Pacifica range the quality of the pickups, bridge, tuners, etc improves, but the bits hidden under the scratchplate remain much the same.

Voxman

Thanks guys

Funkfingers said:

Voxman said:

I don't gel with the stock Seymour Duncan Humbucker - it's too woolly and not defined and crisp/punchy enough - through my Tonelabs it gets lost in the mix. 

This could be because the output of the humbucker overwhelms the A/D converter in the VOX processor. I suggest that you try the guitar through other amplification and/or pedals before embarking on a round of modifications and expenditure.

It is also possible that the metal pickup cover is attenuating some of the high end detail.

I seriously doubt that - the output of the SD HB is actually quite low as compared to my Gibson LP, SG, Epi Sheraton II (which as SD SH1 59's) & PRS Cu24.  Aside from the PRS all my h/b are covered and they all sound great through the Tonelab. 

drwiddly said:

Sound advice from @Roland.

If after that, the sound of the SD humbucker is still not doing it for you, have a word with Ash at Oil City to see what he can do for you.

Although new switching gear & pots & the earthing/shielding changes will improve tone a bit and reduce noise, I'm convinced the h/b p/up needs replacing - I've been reading up & it seems a lot of folk have found the same thing ie the bridge h/b is muddy, lacking in definition, and letting the guitar down.  I'll certainly drop Ash at Oil City a line to see what he suggests.

mbe

I have a 611 hardtail and I find the bridge pickup anything but muddy. It sings.

I agree the pots are crap, same as the bottom of the line Pacifica models, which is a bit naughty for a guitar that retails at near enough £700.

I would try the bridge pickup, bypassing the switch and pots, straight to the output jack before spending any money on it.

ThorpyFX

I have the 611hfm and fitted a mojo p90 sized humbucker in the neck and a mojo “cowtron” humbucker sized filtertron in the neck, changed the switch to a five way and have loads of switching options and sounds from this awesome guitar. The only thing it won’t do is really high gain. 

Voxman

ThorpyFX said:

I have the 611hfm and fitted a mojo p90 sized humbucker in the neck and a mojo “cowtron” humbucker sized filtertron in the neck, changed the switch to a five way and have loads of switching options and sounds from this awesome guitar. The only thing it won’t do is really high gain. 

interesting (presumably @ThorpyFX you meant that the Cowtron was in the bridge?) 

Voxman

mbe said:

I have a 611 hardtail and I find the bridge pickup anything but muddy. It sings.

I agree the pots are crap, same as the bottom of the line Pacifica models, which is a bit naughty for a guitar that retails at near enough £700.

I would try the bridge pickup, bypassing the switch and pots, straight to the output jack before spending any money on it.

Hi @mbe - at home its fine but it's in the live mix at volume with a band that it lacks punch & definition and is too muddy. 

Funkfingers

What changes to the settings on the VOX Tonelab do you make for live band work?

ICBM

Voxman said:

mbe said:

I have a 611 hardtail and I find the bridge pickup anything but muddy. It sings.

I agree the pots are crap, same as the bottom of the line Pacifica models, which is a bit naughty for a guitar that retails at near enough £700.

I would try the bridge pickup, bypassing the switch and pots, straight to the output jack before spending any money on it.

Hi @mbe - at home its fine but it's in the live mix at volume with a band that it lacks punch & definition and is too muddy. 

This is an odd thing - I’ve found it too, the other way round. I had a Strat which sounded wonderful at home or when recorded, but thin and gutless at band volume. It was this specific guitar and nothing to do with it either being a Strat - I had another nearly identical one which was fine - or the amp/pedal settings.

So what I’m really saying is think carefully before spending serious money on it - it may not be the electrics that are the problem. I would still replace the pots, switch and jack first though, because the stock ones are crap. (Replacing the likely excessive amount of thin shitty wiring will probably help with the noise even without shielding the cavities.) If after that the P90 sounds great but the humbucker doesn’t, it is probably the pickup.

ab2017

Swap out the custom 5 pickup that's what I did. You'll need a pickup with more mids to match better with the p90. I used an original parallel axis and that did the trick. You could also try a jb as that has plenty more mids look at description in the link below about scooped mids in a c5. I found a custom 5 works better in Les Paul type guitars for me. 

Other option would be removing cover and putting in a alnico 2 mag to make a custom custom

https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/custom-5 ;

ThorpyFX

Voxman said:

ThorpyFX said:

I have the 611hfm and fitted a mojo p90 sized humbucker in the neck and a mojo “cowtron” humbucker sized filtertron in the neck, changed the switch to a five way and have loads of switching options and sounds from this awesome guitar. The only thing it won’t do is really high gain. 

interesting (presumably @ThorpyFX you meant that the Cowtron was in the bridge?) 

Yes, apologies I meant bridge, shouldn’t  drink and type......

Voxman

Funkfingers said:

What changes to the settings on the VOX Tonelab do you make for live band work?

None - because it's set-up for live-work already.  At home I use the Valvetronix or a valve-amp.  

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

mbe said:

I have a 611 hardtail and I find the bridge pickup anything but muddy. It sings.

I agree the pots are crap, same as the bottom of the line Pacifica models, which is a bit naughty for a guitar that retails at near enough £700.

I would try the bridge pickup, bypassing the switch and pots, straight to the output jack before spending any money on it.

Hi @mbe - at home its fine but it's in the live mix at volume with a band that it lacks punch & definition and is too muddy. 

This is an odd thing - I’ve found it too, the other way round. I had a Strat which sounded wonderful at home or when recorded, but thin and gutless at band volume. It was this specific guitar and nothing to do with it either being a Strat - I had another nearly identical one which was fine - or the amp/pedal settings.

So what I’m really saying is think carefully before spending serious money on it - it may not be the electrics that are the problem. I would still replace the pots, switch and jack first though, because the stock ones are crap. (Replacing the likely excessive amount of thin shitty wiring will probably help with the noise even without shielding the cavities.) If after that the P90 sounds great but the humbucker doesn’t, it is probably the pickup.

Interesting @ICBM - sounds as if the pick-up output voltage may have been a little lower; enough to sound sweet at home/recording but lacking 'ooomph' in the mix.  

What pots, switch and jack should I buy - can you recommend a good quality make that's reasonably priced? 

I'm certainly not going to spend a lot of money on it, but if I'm going to put in new switching gear, it might make sense to maximise the tonal options.  With the P90 & HB currently there are 5 tonal positions and @Roland suggested putting in a 5-way and doing away with the push-pull for easier switching.  But I was also wondering whether more tonal variations might be possible by putting in a 5-way & keeping the push-pull - any thoughts here on wiring/useful tones that could be added?

Because I'm a luddite I wouldn't try & do the mods myself and I'd ask my tech guy to do them.  Hence it may be more economical for me to have the HB replaced at the same time.  I was thinking of finding a good HB second-hand rather than buying new - perhaps from one of the Fretboard guys here. 

@funkfingers you mentioned that the Pacifica requires "F" polepiece spacing - please could you explain what that means and what I need to look for when sourcing a pickup? Is it the pickup itself that's a different size physically or just the pole-piece spacing? If it's just the pole spacing, does it actually matter & make any real difference?  

Ah - Just found this: "F-spaced humbuckers should be used in the bridge position on guitars with string spacing at the bridge of 2.1″ or 53mm (or greater)." 

ICBM

Voxman said:

Interesting @ICBM - sounds as if the pick-up output voltage may have been a little lower; enough to sound sweet at home/recording but lacking 'ooomph' in the mix.

I don't think so - it was an American Standard, but so was my other one that sounded fine. The pickups on these are very consistent, so I think it was something inherent to the tone of the guitar itself.

Voxman said:

What pots, switch and jack should I buy - can you recommend a good quality make that's reasonably priced?

CTS pots, CRL switch, Switchcraft jack. They are not the cheapest but they are the accepted best - even though CTS quality isn't quite what it once was.

If you want to do 5-way switching including splitting the humbucker you need a Superswitch really - there is a scheme to do it with a standard 5-way but it's not ideal since the combined both-pickups sound is a bit odd.

Voxman said:

@funkfingers you mentioned that the Pacifica requires "F" polepiece spacing - please could you explain what that means and what I need to look for when sourcing a pickup? Is it the pickup itself that's a different size physically or just the pole-piece spacing? If it's just the pole spacing, does it actually matter & make any real difference?  

Ah - Just found this: "F-spaced humbuckers should be used in the bridge position on guitars with string spacing at the bridge of 2.1″ or 53mm (or greater)." 

It's largely visual. As long as the E strings pass over any part of the polepieces, even the extreme outer edge, then you won't get any loss of output. Even if they're very slightly outside that it's usually fine.

But if you're ordering a new pickup, you may as well have it right.