How to find the key of a song...Fast !

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sm55onlsm55onl Frets: 28
edited January 2018 in Theory
Rick Beato has a good little vid on U-tube for finding the key of a song in double quick time...
https://youtu.be/zfaobb14oME

Notes:
1. The video initially discusses the more advanced seventh chords, progressions and subsequently identified key changes.

Tip: 
Search for the dominant chords to get a better grip on the associated key.


2. From 7:15 onwards, the easier (non-seventh) chords are studied, for “.. you rack (?) players out there..’

Tip: 
Search for two major chords a whole step apart - this will correspond to the IV and V chords of the progression and, thus, the key should be quickly identified thereafter.
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Comments

  • mrkbmrkb Frets: 6636
    Same if you find  two minor chords a tone apart - they’ll be the ii and iii , a major with a minor a semi tone below will be IV and iii
    Karma......
    Ebay mark7777_1
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  • VeganicVeganic Frets: 673
    Cool.

    So "Stepping Stone" is in D?*

    *I suppose it's not far off E minor so there is that
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  • The 2 majors a tone apart or the 2 minors a tone apart are indeed good clues. Worth looking for the  ii-V-I sequences as well, especially as they'll give away any key changes within the song :)
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14320
    I'm surprised that Bridgehouse has not suggested the pick-up band bassist's trick of glissing down the E string until you find the root. ;)
    Be seeing you.
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  • So what key is Sweet Home Alabama in then?
     =) 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    So what key is Sweet Home Alabama in then?
     =) 
    sm55onl said:

    Tip: Search for two major chords a whole step apart - this will correspond to the IV and V chords of the progression and, thus, the key should be quickly identified thereafter.
    :)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited February 2018
    ICBM said:
    So what key is Sweet Home Alabama in then?
      
    sm55onl said:

    Tip: Search for two major chords a whole step apart - this will correspond to the IV and V chords of the progression and, thus, the key should be quickly identified thereafter.
    Unless it’s a I-bVII-IV progression in Mixolydian, like Back in Black, You ain’t seen nothing yet, etc

    I really like Beato but I have to say I find his whole approach to this most peculiar. It’s like finding out what a book is about by counting the instances of every word, sorting the list, and taking the top 10. Surely you just have to listen to the music and sing the home key? What he’s showing, very precisely, is the construct behind the music, the theory underpinning it, which is excellent, but the method of recognising home is to listen to where the music points you. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71951
    edited February 2018
    I know, I was just being funny about SHA - because in this case it does give the correct key. I’ve never really understood the debate about it...

    I should say that I know very little about music theory, but the way I do it is exactly as you said, listen to where the music points you. Looking for the IV/V chords is just a shortcut.

    On the subject of SHA I asked a proper classically-trained musician what key it was in, and the answer she gave is G major, but the vocal melody and some of the guitar parts are in a different mode (I forget which).

    Anyway, Ed King says it’s in G.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited February 2018
    ICBM said:
    I know, I was just being funny about SHA - because in this case it does give the correct key. I’ve never really understood the debate about it...

    I should say that I know very little about music theory, but the way I do it is exactly as you said, listen to where the music points you. Looking for the IV/V chords is just a shortcut.

    On the subject of SHA I asked a proper classically-trained musician what key it was in, and the answer she gave is G major, but the vocal melody and some of the guitar parts are in a different mode (I forget which).

    Anyway, Ed King says it’s in G.
    Yeah I know :)

    They’re wrong anyway but that’s fine! At least, they’re partly right - you can force it into either key depending on how you play it. But perhaps that’s for another thread. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    I'm trying to work out the key of a song I've been given with the chords: D - A - Bb - A in the verse and Bb - C - D in the chorus.

    Using the whole step apart thing from the OP, it seems to give G as the key but using the "just listen to where it takes you" mentioned by a few people, I'd say D.

    I tend to get lost when the notes of the chords don't fit into any single key that I can find.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Sounds like a few people don’t know what a secondary dominant is.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10643
    edited March 2018
    That’s because your D ‘ought’ to be a D minor, and possibly is (or maybe isn’t, in which case it’s not a truly diatonic song, which is fine), but in any case the tone in question is the one between the Bb and the C (not the one between the C and the D), indicating the key would be F major, if it were a major song, or D (which as you say, it indeed is), if the song were a minor or non-diatonic.

    This is what i was trying to say earlier. The best way to determine the key is to listen to where the home note is (D), not to find two major chords a tone apart. You’re 100% right. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    octatonic said:
    Sounds like a few people don’t know what a secondary dominant is.


    ?
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    viz said:
    That’s because your D ‘ought’ to be a D minor, and possibly is (or maybe isn’t, in which case it’s not a truly diatonic song, which is fine), but in any case the tone in question is the one between the Bb and the C (not the one between the C and the D), indicating the key would be F major, if it were a major song, or D (which as you say, it indeed is), if the song were a minor or non-diatonic.

    This is what i was trying to say earlier. The best way to determine the key is to listen to where the home note is (D), not to find two major chords a tone apart. You’re 100% right. 
    One of the first things I thought was that if it was a D minor instead of major chord it would fit perfectly and be a fairly standard sounding progression but it's definitely a D major chord and sounds good like that.

    I've heard of chords being "borrowed" from the minor version of the key it's in - is that still applicable if it's what's meant to be the home chord? Could the song be in D minor even though the D minor chord has been replaced by a D major?
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    octatonic said:
    Sounds like a few people don’t know what a secondary dominant is.
    Is that in response to my post?

    If so, I don't know what it is but want to.
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited March 2018
    There is also plenty of software that can help too 
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    You can Google song keys too. Try it!
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4942
    Keep in mind that not every song abides by the rules. D minor (in the key of C) is often replaced with D major. Essentially whatever works...
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited March 2018
    thegummy said:
    octatonic said:
    Sounds like a few people don’t know what a secondary dominant is.
    Is that in response to my post?

    If so, I don't know what it is but want to.
    It wasn't directed at anyone in particular but the notion that you can use the dominant chord to figure out the key of a song is fundamentally flawed.

    In a chord progression that is wholly within one key then it works fine- you have a Dm7 G7 C Maj7 progression then you can take the dominant chord and go down a 5th and find your key- in this example it would be C major.

    Ok, well how about this then:



    How do you know when it modulates key and when the dominant chords are secondary dominants, which is a chord that is dominant to a chord other than the tonic?

    Using a dominant as a way to work out the tonic has very limited use.
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  • thegummythegummy Frets: 4389
    My experience of music theory is learning the basics, applying it to a few songs and having a "eureka! everything makes sense!" feeling then it didn't take long before I find out that many good songs don't follow the simple basic rules and everything is mystical again lol
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