Ivison Guitars '59 DC Model - Build Thread

IvisonGuitars

peteri said:

Interesting observation on the special neck joint - I compared my 62 Special to a 61 at the recent jam.

My 62 is an anomaly - there's a chap in America who has found 6-7 in existence (meaning made after they were meant to have been stopped), the theory is they are warrant claims by Gibson - this is borne out by mine having 59 dates on all the hardware (like they just swapped it in the event of a neck break).

Anyway the point of this post - the 61 (last of the Specials) had the front pickup pulled back to where you would expect it once they realised the neck joint wasn't great. Mine has it even further back - basically closer to where the middle pickup on the strat would be - kind of emphasising 'there's no way we'll touch that tenon on a warranty claim'

Changes the 'both pickups on' quite considerably

Sorry for the off-topic!

That’s interesting Peter, is your Special the ex @Bridgehouse one?

In mid ‘59, once they’d realised the design flaw, they moved the pickup route 3/4” back from the end of the neck to try and combat it. Is yours further back that that?

Bridgehouse

miserneil said:

peteri said:

Interesting observation on the special neck joint - I compared my 62 Special to a 61 at the recent jam.

My 62 is an anomaly - there's a chap in America who has found 6-7 in existence (meaning made after they were meant to have been stopped), the theory is they are warrant claims by Gibson - this is borne out by mine having 59 dates on all the hardware (like they just swapped it in the event of a neck break).

Anyway the point of this post - the 61 (last of the Specials) had the front pickup pulled back to where you would expect it once they realised the neck joint wasn't great. Mine has it even further back - basically closer to where the middle pickup on the strat would be - kind of emphasising 'there's no way we'll touch that tenon on a warranty claim'

Changes the 'both pickups on' quite considerably

Sorry for the off-topic!

That’s interesting Peter, is your Special the ex @Bridgehouse one?

In mid ‘59, once they’d realised the design flaw, they moved the pickup route 3/4” back from the end of the neck to try and combat it. Is yours further back that that?

I believe it is slightly further - and it was common on the very last specials - the neck pickup enjoyed a total of 3 different positions over time - with this one being the most set back 

peteri

miserneil said:

peteri said:

Interesting observation on the special neck joint - I compared my 62 Special to a 61 at the recent jam.

My 62 is an anomaly - there's a chap in America who has found 6-7 in existence (meaning made after they were meant to have been stopped), the theory is they are warrant claims by Gibson - this is borne out by mine having 59 dates on all the hardware (like they just swapped it in the event of a neck break).

Anyway the point of this post - the 61 (last of the Specials) had the front pickup pulled back to where you would expect it once they realised the neck joint wasn't great. Mine has it even further back - basically closer to where the middle pickup on the strat would be - kind of emphasising 'there's no way we'll touch that tenon on a warranty claim'

Changes the 'both pickups on' quite considerably

Sorry for the off-topic!

That’s interesting Peter, is your Special the ex @Bridgehouse one?

In mid ‘59, once they’d realised the design flaw, they moved the pickup route 3/4” back from the end of the neck to try and combat it. Is yours further back that that?

One and the same!

I'll measure mine over the next few days - it feels further, but that might be me!

IvisonGuitars

Bridgehouse said:

I believe it is slightly further - and it was common on the very last specials - the neck pickup enjoyed a total of 3 different positions over time - with this one being the most set back 

That’s interesting, I’d not heard that before, as they say, everyday’s a school day, thanks!

peteri said:

I'll measure mine over the next few days - it feels further, but that might be me!

If you would @peteri that'd be great, would be interesting to know where it finally ended up!

roberty

Looks like this could be a DC '62 with the exaggerated pickup placement (scroll to bottom):

http://www.jerrock.com/66/les_paul_special_DC

peteri

Red one at the bottom is the spitting image of mine - so much so I checked serial numbers!

roberty

peteri said:

Red one at the bottom is the spitting image of mine - so much so I checked serial numbers!

Very nice! I'll bet it's an absolute joy

Bridgehouse

roberty said:

Looks like this could be a DC '62 with the exaggerated pickup placement (scroll to bottom):

http://www.jerrock.com/66/les_paul_special_DC

That’s the 3rd position - I believe the bridge pickup moved away from the bridge a bit too exaggerating how close the neck pickup looks to it.

springhead

It does look like both pickups moved closer together in that photo.  Didn't notice that at the jam Peter - thought it was just the neck pup that had moved.  Unless yours has the bridge pup in the original position?

Edit: actually (by the power of google translate) it says they went to a compensated wrapover so the bridge on the '62 version is not slanted toward the pickup on the treble side.  Makes it look like the pickup has moved.

Bridgehouse

springhead said:

It does look like both pickups moved closer together in that photo.  Didn't notice that at the jam Peter - thought it was just the neck pup that had moved.  Unless yours has the bridge pup in the original position?

Edit: actually (by the power of google translate) it says they went to a compensated wrapover so the bridge on the '62 version is not slanted toward the pickup on the treble side.  Makes it look like the pickup has moved.

The bridge pickup did move to increase the amount of wood in between the bridge post and the pickup rout. TBH it was very very slight though, but optically does make the two look even closer

SidNewton

Great stuff @miserneil, enjoyed reading through that. It really hammers home the amount of time, effort and skill that's going into each guitar.
It also puts into perspective the recent discussion on SVL guitars when people can see bodies and necks being made from scratch with such attention to detail.

WezV

On the end of the  neck, end grain joins have very little structural significance.  If you did that same join out of the guitar you would be able to break it apart with very little effort.

The long grain join on the bottom is really your primary glue surface, the sides help it all align and add some strength.  The only structural thing the end helps with is forward tilt as it provides a bit of support, but that ain’t gonna be an issue on an unmolested junior.  

It does make a good stop so you know you are glueing in the right place. 

Mine always meet meet the end, but I do trim the corners slightly.  It gives a handy way for excess glue to escape and takes away the trickiest bit of the fitting.  Literally cutting corners

peteri

Measured at the treble side - the bridge pickup is 1.5cm from the bridge and the front pickup is 3cm from the edge of the neck.

Surprised it looks more!

IvisonGuitars

peteri said:

Measured at the treble side - the bridge pickup is 1.5cm from the bridge and the front pickup is 3cm from the edge of the neck.

Surprised it looks more!

Wow, that IS pretty far back, almost to the end of the neck tenon! Thanks for that

IvisonGuitars

Right, next job is to locate the bridge.

From research, in the 50's Gibson used a simple 'T' bar that was held against the nut at the thin end of the 'T' and the cross bar of the 'T' was where the bridge holes were drilled. Hence why the bridge angles on the guitars varied so much and some need the grub screws fully in for it to intonate. It was all dependant on who was doing the drilling and how conscientious they were....and if they'd been to the pub for dinner...

But, hey, it worked and they made some incredible sounding guitars with that method so i'm not knocking it at all.

My method here is slightly different and may draw some gasps from the crowd...( )....as it's a bit Heath Robinson and I thunk of it all on my self...

Firstly, I drill for the bottom strap button and attach a 'T' shaped bracket which I have drilled two holes in for the 2 E strings.



I attach the machine heads and pop a nut in place then string up both E strings. I also place the P90 in the route. Next i reach for my patented 'Ivison Bridge Location Jig'...



I seat the bridge on the jig....



...and position it under the strings and measure the scale length. With this jig I can adjust the bridge until I get the intonation spot on and I can also make sure the strings are positioned perfectly over the P90 like so:



Once i've checked, double checked and triple checked the intonation and position, I screw the bolts down (which I have ground to a point)...



And it gives me two marks on which to centre my drill bit:



Next, over to the pillar drill to drill the anchor holes:



Once I have both the anchor holes drilled, I drill a small hole into the treble side anchor for the earth wire:



Then I use the pillar drill to press in the anchor studs:



Which brings us to here:



And we're almost ready for some grain filling...but first we sand!

More soon!

tone1

You make it look effortless.... which I’m sure it’s not. Really interesting to see the build in progress 

Danielsguitars

i use a trapeze but essentially the same way, and i always hope I've got it right lol

WezV

I thing you could sell that idea to stew-mac.  Looks like a great solution.

as above, I often use a trapeze to hold the strings.  But I really like the addition of the bolts for marking position

Jez6345789

Very nice 
I presume you are not using a 1950’s glue pot and tight bond for the neck joint. Obviously the whole hot hide fish protein glue etc has been hyped to death by the big companies do you feel there is merit in using this type of glue or anything that locks it in place. 

Doubt i I could hear any difference between glues lol

Boromedic

Jez6345789 said:

Very nice 
I presume you are not using a 1950’s glue pot and tight bond for the neck joint. Obviously the whole hot hide fish protein glue etc has been hyped to death by the big companies do you feel there is merit in using this type of glue or anything that locks it in place. 

Doubt i I could hear any difference between glues lol

If you could would it make you a glue "cork" sniffer?!

Loving this build thread btw, great stuff.