The secret to good tone is...

koneguitarist

Is it no wonder that we cannot agree on what the key to good tone is, as there is so many different answers, and yet no one can say any of them is wrong, well apart from lucky pants =D>

richardhomer

koneguitarist;205168" said:

Is it no wonder that we cannot agree on what the key to good tone is, as there is so many different answers, and yet no one can say any of them is wrong, well apart from lucky pants =D>

Strings as well...

Dave_Mc

ICBM said:

jellyroll said:

I'm just a novice and am prepared to be wrong......but aren't the above posts referring to timing/dynamics/musicality/something else when saying tone is in the fingers? Isn't tone about the quality of the sound .......which is primarily a function of the equipment?

Yes and no. It's a complex and probably inseparable combination of the two.

If you give two different players the exact same equipment and set it the same, they can often sound very different in tone as well as playing - even just on a single held note or chord… remarkably so. There really is a 'hand tone' which is separate from anything to do with the equipment, even if you take the phrasing etc out of the equation.

Equally if you give the same player two completely different set-ups, the result can be a very different sound. So there is a 'gear tone' which is separate from anything to do with the player.

Agreed. I tend to separate "gear" tone and "finger" tone- though the two obviously interact and as you said, it's complicated.

It also depends on how you're trying to sound- if I try to dial in two different guitars and amps to sound similar they'll sound a lot closer than if I dial them in to accentuate their differences (which is more or less what you're saying in the post above).

Kerpunk

Less gain more volume and pick at your strings harder.

koneguitarist

Kerpunk said:

Less gain more volume and pick at your strings harder.

Don`t agree with this sorry, understand about the gain to a certain extent but that's more down to taste. If you are using really lights strings you don't play them hard or they can bend before the note is produced.

The heavier the string the harder you play it. Mate of mine played one of Knopflers strats, the action was so low with a set of 9`s that to my mate it was buzzing and clanging all over the neck, yet he watched Knopfler play it so lightly and without any issues what so ever.

Kerpunk

koneguitarist said:

Kerpunk said:

Less gain more volume and pick at your strings harder.

Don`t agree with this sorry, understand about the gain to a certain extent but that's more down to taste. If you are using really lights strings you don't play them hard or they can bend before the note is produced.

The heavier the string the harder you play it. Mate of mine played one of Knopflers strats, the action was so low with a set of 9`s that to my mate it was buzzing and clanging all over the neck, yet he watched Knopfler play it so lightly and without any issues what so ever.

If you want good tone you shouldn't be playing light strings.

But it's subjective but I really do believe that guitar should be just like any other instrument where the tone is generated by the user. I think that a tone that "speaks" ie through dynamic picking and good vibrato technique etc is a better "tone" (not sound).

Surely "tone" is the feel of the player and I don't think you can feel someones playing when they're playing strings that need to be treated like fine china with too much gain.

richardhomer

Kerpunk;205721" said:

If you want good tone you shouldn't be playing light strings.

Knopfler definitely disproves this.

If you have a hard hitting picking technique, you need heavier strings but to me string gauge (on an electric guitar) is far more a question of how hard you hit it than 'tone'.

Billy Gibbons (who sounds gigantic) and Brian May both use very light strings.

Robert Cray (who's tone is quite 'small') uses quite heavy strings.

kelvinburn

"Tone" seems to be a pretentious internet word used by people who need to justify overspending on equipment. :P

ICBM

richardhomer said:

If you have a hard hitting picking technique, you need heavier strings but to me string gauge (on an electric guitar) is far more a question of how hard you hit it than 'tone'.

Billy Gibbons (who sounds gigantic) and Brian May both use very light strings.

Robert Cray (who's tone is quite 'small') uses quite heavy strings.

I disagree .

Billy Gibbons has a 'small' sound - a great one, but it's very midrangy and lacks bottom end… I've never really understood why he's always held up as an example of "light strings, big tone", since to me he's the perfect example of being able to hear the light strings. Brian May also definitely has a 'small' sound. Not sure about Robert Cray - not my kind of thing.

I certainly agree that light strings can give a *good* tone, but it's not the same as the big sound you get from heavy ones - and a heavier technique, which I do agree with. But even if you play heavy strings gently you still get a fuller tone than you do with light ones.

Kerpunk

kelvinburn said:

"Tone" seems to be a pretentious internet word used by people who need to justify overspending on equipment. :P

A much better way of what I was trying to get at haha/

richardhomer

ICBM;205774" said:

I disagree .

So do I!

The point I was really making is that 'good tone' isn't the sole preserve of heavy strings (on an electric guitar).

I accept you get a 'different' sound from bigger strings, but not necessarily a 'better' one.

Knopfler would not have sounded 'better' on the first Dire Straits album if he'd played 12s. He would have sounded different - particularly as his ability to bend would have been greatly compromised.

Equally, it's hard to imagine SRV would have sounded like we are used to hearing him, had his No 1 been set up with a low action and 9s....

koneguitarist

Albert Lee uses 10's James Burton uses 9's, Burton always had a fuller tone on tele than Lee. Brian May with a small tone ? Are you serious ?

Billy Gibbons has a great solid tone. 

ICBM I think you need to actually listen to some of these artists. 

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

Albert Lee uses 10's James Burton uses 9's, Burton always had a fuller tone on tele than Lee. Brian May with a small tone ? Are you serious ?

Billy Gibbons has a great solid tone. 

ICBM I think you need to actually listen to some of these artists. 

I have, and I stick by what I say.

All these players have a 'small' sound - almost all midrange, and quite boxy. Yes, I am absolutely serious about Brian May's tone being small - I love Queen, I've got every one of their albums (I think - apart from A Kind Of Magic) and I am very familiar with how he sounds.

Not thinking a sound is 'big' is not the same as not thinking it's great, or appropriate to the music - it's a simple statement of how the guitar sounds.

Tony Iommi is another classic example, for what it's worth - he does not have a 'big' tone, it's a *small* tone (although you can tell it's played very loud), and the hugeness in the sound of Sabbath comes from the bass and the sheer attitude of how he phrases what he plays. But take away everything other than the guitar and you're left with quite a thin, bright tone.

impmann

Bright? Erm, intro to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, mate!!! Sorry that ain't "bright" to my ears...

No wrong or right - only opinion.

dilbert

koneguitarist said:

I think there are too many variables to say what tone is.

So to answer OP question truthfully and fully, everything and nothing is important.

:-bd

This man talks sense  

ICBM

impmann said:

Bright? Erm, intro to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, mate!!! Sorry that ain't "bright" to my ears...

Just listening to it now. Small, thin tone with no bottom end whatsoever. Doesn't get heavy until the bass comes in.

That particular one is not "bright", no - but it very definitely isn't "big".

Dave_Mc

richardhomer said:

I accept you get a 'different' sound from bigger strings, but not necessarily a 'better' one.

+1

ICBM

Dave_Mc said:

richardhomer said:

I accept you get a 'different' sound from bigger strings, but not necessarily a 'better' one.

+1

I completely agree too, since 'better' is totally dependent on the music.

But I really think you can hear the difference in string gauges (broadly) and that heavier strings give a 'bigger' tone - by which I mean a fuller sound, more bottom end, wider bandwidth or however you define it. Whether that's what you want/need for the type of music you play is a completely different thing. I would say that Iommi proves that it isn't, in fact.

monquixote

Big strings sound jazzier in my experience and have a bigger sound which I think is more noticeable on the wound strings. 

The only thing I think it really matters for is surf music where it seems to be hard to get the tone without thick strings.

A mate of mine was a big jangly Ric player and he always said a wound 3rd was really important for max Ric jangle.

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

koneguitarist said:

Albert Lee uses 10's James Burton uses 9's, Burton always had a fuller tone on tele than Lee. Brian May with a small tone ? Are you serious ?

Billy Gibbons has a great solid tone. 

ICBM I think you need to actually listen to some of these artists. 

I have, and I stick by what I say.

All these players have a 'small' sound - almost all midrange, and quite boxy. Yes, I am absolutely serious about Brian May's tone being small - I love Queen, I've got every one of their albums (I think - apart from A Kind Of Magic) and I am very familiar with how he sounds.

Not thinking a sound is 'big' is not the same as not thinking it's great, or appropriate to the music - it's a simple statement of how the guitar sounds.

Tony Iommi is another classic example, for what it's worth - he does not have a 'big' tone, it's a *small* tone (although you can tell it's played very loud), and the hugeness in the sound of Sabbath comes from the bass and the sheer attitude of how he phrases what he plays. But take away everything other than the guitar and you're left with quite a thin, bright tone.

Lack of top or bottom does not make sound small, more solid in the frequencies we hear.

It's another of those myths big strings are best. It's how you play them that's important not the gauge, I have heard bigger strings sound thinner on a les paul than ultra light 8's on a tele !