Fast tempo tips? (Basket Case).

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pmbombpmbomb Frets: 1169
edited November 2018 in Technique
I'm trying to play Green Day's Basket Case but struggling to get up to tempo. (In the region of 350 bpm - nearly 6 x 2 or 3 string down picks a second).

Any tips? Or just more practice.....

Ta.
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  • pmbombpmbomb Frets: 1169
    Come back Teenage Kicks all is forgiven, I used to think you were quick! You're an amble on the beach!
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  • 350bpm?!?? That’s very very fast. I’m not sure you’ve got that tempo right? 

    I’d start slow and wind it up from there. 
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  • The actual tempo is 176bpm, I teach this song sometimes to learners and the tempo is tricky to keep the note chugging in time. It just takes developing endurance in that right hand, start slower with a metronome and work your way up, trying to keep the even 8th note subdivisions with the palm mutes.
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  • pmbombpmbomb Frets: 1169
    350bpm?!?? That’s very very fast. I’m not sure you’ve got that tempo right? 

    I’d start slow and wind it up from there. 
    no it's17* but in eights. the guitar is playing 37*.

    (@lestratcaster thanks).
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  • Ah so you're playing quarter notes at double tempo? That kinda makes sense but I would try to subdivide 8ths at 176bpm.
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  • pmbomb said:
    350bpm?!?? That’s very very fast. I’m not sure you’ve got that tempo right? 

    I’d start slow and wind it up from there. 
    no it's17* but in eights. the guitar is playing 37*.

    (@lestratcaster thanks).
    Yes, that's right. And mostly downstrokes... 

    The key thing is to stay as relaxed as you can. It's easy to let your right arm get tense as you're trying to control the timing and the speed, but that actually makes it harder. And minimise the actual movement your arm is making as much as possible - the chuggy bits should come from the wrist as much as you can; you don't need (or want) to move your elbow as that'll just increase the effort and decrease accuracy. 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • Strikes me that the practical issue is one of control, and motor skills. Back of that however is the notion that unless your mind is fully convinced of what you are trying to execute you will never be able to drive your motor system into doing what is required at speed. Any doubt will cause timing glitches and delays
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • pmbombpmbomb Frets: 1169
    Ah so you're playing quarter notes at double tempo? That kinda makes sense but I would try to subdivide 8ths at 176bpm.
    ta, you mean set the metronome to 176 (or whatever I can do) and work on playing 2 chugs per click?

    aside, I also figured:
    * using pick edge not tip, it's less grabby and also I can get my hand closer
    * most strokes are 1 or 2 strings not 3
    * it doesn't have to be perfect to be good.

    ta for tips all.
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  • pmbomb said:
    aside, I also figured:
    * using pick edge not tip, it's less grabby and also I can get my hand closer
    * most strokes are 1 or 2 strings not 3
    * it doesn't have to be perfect to be good.

    ta for tips all.
    This is definitely true - BJA is a decent rock player, but is absolutely not Steve Vai. Getting the right feel is way more important for this sort of thing than getting every beat of every note *exactly* where it is on the original record.
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • Practice it at a speed you are comfortable at and treat it a bit like a sport training session... don’t try to sprint all the time, if you can’t hold it at that speed then you’re not relaxed and fluid enough.

    I play a lot of songs this tempo or a bit faster.

    How I practice for it is I practice a lot at a slower tempo, e.g. 120-140 and really focus on being in time, playing with the correct dynamics, and relaxed.  Then I'll practice through at full speed a few times.  But I won't repeatedly play at full speed usually.

    If I've had a lot of time off not practicing fast songs I will be practicing more like 100bpm, so around half time, and do that for a couple of days before I try to push it.

    If I'm trying to get good at playing something I'm not a fan of playing at full speed or close to if it isn't clean.  I don't find it as efficient as practising slower, even if your goal is to play fast. 

    Technique is what lets you play fast, if you try to play fast without the right technique you'll hit a wall much quicker, or worse still you might injure yourself.
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  • The stretch and relax approach works.

    You can play comfortably at n bpm. Try n+2, n+4 etc until you can't do it. Back off, but stop the process when your tempo is at originaln+2 or +4.
    Tomorrow, restart with n = the number you last backed off at
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • pmbomb said:
    Ah so you're playing quarter notes at double tempo? That kinda makes sense but I would try to subdivide 8ths at 176bpm.
    ta, you mean set the metronome to 176 (or whatever I can do) and work on playing 2 chugs per click?

    aside, I also figured:
    * using pick edge not tip, it's less grabby and also I can get my hand closer
    * most strokes are 1 or 2 strings not 3
    * it doesn't have to be perfect to be good.

    ta for tips all.
    Yes, so get them even and nice and tight. Try not to tense up your right arm cos it'll only make the technique harder, as others have said, relax.
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  • pmbombpmbomb Frets: 1169
    still working on this - one thing I've found is having the guitar a little lower when stood up (ie strap longer) means the pickign hand hand-wrist joint ie straighter and picks are faster and smoother.

    (maybe I'm special, I've broken this wrist in the past and it's not 100% anyway - but might help others).

    but not as low as Billy Jo!


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