I'm not a fast player.. I admit it.

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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036
    DLM said:
    OK, if people are posting examples of their own playing, here's mine:


    That ought to start playing at the beginning of my solo, which isn't all that fast in the grand scheme of things (sextuplets at 120ish), though I realise that might sound sniffy to anyone struggling at lower tempi. There's a picking/tapping/hammer-on and pull-off mix there. I wasn't able to get much sweeping into solos with the band because I felt it tended to sound too contrived. There's a little on You Kill Me, and I usually added a bit more live:


    good stuff mate :) 
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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036

    It's more about hearing something I like and wanting to incorporate it into my playing than speed in itself.
    You mentioned Kossoff in your original post, who was my first guitar hero in my teens. In an attempt to emulate his sound, I spent well over a year trying to develop finger vibrato, including watching him live. I never really nailed Kossoff's vibrato, so I even failed with that, but hopefully I developed a half decent vibrato in the process of trying.

    You also mention Larry Carlton and Van Halen. I've struggled more with playing some Larry Carlton stuff than some Van Halen. For example, Larry Carlton's Strikes Twice riff (or should I say 'Jaguar' by Johnny Smith :)) is an absolute pig for me and I have to keep working at it.

    I can play pretty fast with legato (probably helped by the fact that I'm left handed but play right handed), tapping, and 'pick every note' linear scalar stuff. But, to my great frustration, I still can't get that rapid fire 'pentatonic picking thing' up to the speed and articulation of Eric Johnson and Joe B, even though it's much slower than other stuff I can play.

    As people are posting clips, here's a 'Spinal Tap' moment from a recent gig :). Warning it's not for those that like tasteful playing and I have no illusions about it being musical. I can already feel the hate that's going to come my way, but it always goes down a storm with the audience.



    that's ace. I like how you stuck to your guns and just blazed away throughout! Very tasty playing as well =) (and you're right - sometimes the audience do actually like a shredding solo!)
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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036
    Barney said:

    Great stuff man....love the song as well ..really tasteful playing !
    cheers mate  =)
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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036

    Clarky said:
    I tend to treat speed [which I think of as 'note density'] as an effect..
    to my mind, effects are not just gain, delay, reverb, swirlies etc, but also include note selection, note density, direction, melodic lines and phrasing..
    I like to use different note densities to generate specific musical impacts.. long lyrical notes to create space and open out the solo.. greater densities to create a sense of urgency or to make a solo climax..

    the solo here starts around 3.00-ish mins
    note in this one the bulk of the sol is about space and melody.. however I use a few brief bursts to head into notes that climax.. and then tear into it a little more at the end for the final climax..




    this one follows a similar mentality but in a different context.. start melodic, then tear it up to increase the intensity..



    this one comes from a different place.. at the start I'm trying to be 'cool / sassy' sounding..
    then I just throw in something flash as that's just how I felt like playing at the time..
    having a little show-off here and there is fun..
    so it was less 'thought about' than the previous two.. I was playing more instinctively here


    that's wicked playing as ever. I must dig out your Shredz At An Exhibition CD again!
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    edited January 2019
    Some great stuff all round!

    Nowt wrong at all with not being a fast player or being a fast player either. I think it’s the coming to terms with where one is at that is the thing really. 

    I was big into fast playing so I’d get a little green eyed watching certain players do certain things. But I realised I just don’t have the mentality/talent (well, I’m lazy really!) to sit and try and reach certain speeds or get certain technical things down. Then came a period of rejecting it all a little bit too but over time I reached a bit of a middle ground. I just work on being the best version of me these days (whatever that is) and just go with wherever my head is at musically. 

    In the spirit of sharing fast(ish) playing, here’s a thing I did for a friend. I initially sent something much more in line with how I play generally. But then I got asked for more notes so I think I was just about able to pull something out of the bag but I was right on the edge. 

    https://soundcloud.com/brad-edmondson/eastern-promise

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  • mudslide73mudslide73 Frets: 3049
    I think the thing that needs pointing out here is @equalsql can play quickly actually. He's hiding his light under a Gary Bushell. 
    "A city star won’t shine too far"


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  • DLM said:
    OK, if people are posting examples of their own playing, here's mine:


    That ought to start playing at the beginning of my solo, which isn't all that fast in the grand scheme of things (sextuplets at 120ish), though I realise that might sound sniffy to anyone struggling at lower tempi. There's a picking/tapping/hammer-on and pull-off mix there. I wasn't able to get much sweeping into solos with the band because I felt it tended to sound too contrived. There's a little on You Kill Me, and I usually added a bit more live:



    Wow'd !!!
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  • peteri said:
    I think everyone has a different idea of vast, for me I find the EVH stuff relatively easy to hit, not a problem really - find his rhythm playing much harder to get than lead.

    But the Yngwie/shred/sweeping stuff alludes me - just can't get that down, this year I've made it a mission - but it's a long slow slog, do others find it different? Even three string sweeps are taking ages to get working

    The Yngwie stuff is incredibly hard to nail because the timing is extremely free. 

    With the sweeps I think the best way is to get the shapes under your fingers and then try to play the "right" first note on each beat and the rhythm should work out on their own. 

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  • DannyPDannyP Frets: 1667
    Some people have what sports physiologists call fast-twitch muscles and some don't.

    That's why Chris Froome and Mark Cavendish are such very different riders.

    Guitarists with a more fast-twitch physiology will be able to respond to practice and build a faster top speed than people that don't.

    Sometimes you find players with a natural affinity for speed telling slower players things like, 'you just need to practice', 'speed is a by-product of accuracy', 'just start slow and speed up' etc etc etc. – without really appreciating that people with a different physiology will face different limitations.

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  • DannyP said:
    Some people have what sports physiologists call fast-twitch muscles and some don't.

    That's why Chris Froome and Mark Cavendish are such very different riders.

    Guitarists with a more fast-twitch physiology will be able to respond to practice and build a faster top speed than people that don't.

    Sometimes you find players with a natural affinity for speed telling slower players things like, 'you just need to practice', 'speed is a by-product of accuracy', 'just start slow and speed up' etc etc etc. – without really appreciating that people with a different physiology will face different limitations.


    The problem with starting slow and building up speed is that the muscle movements for playing slow are very different than playing fast.  The recommendations now are try playing as fast as you can, even if it’s sloppy.  If you can get it sloppy but if it feels smooth then stick with that motion.

    Think of a sprinter – they don’t perfect their technique by going slow and speeding up.  They go fast and work out what works and what doesn’t.   


    If you just can’t play fast then use lots of legato and tapping and, most of all, enjoy your playing!   

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  • JotaJota Frets: 463
    I was never a fast player. It was a problem from the beginning!
    My first guitar teacher was a YJM fan and I could not do any of that stuff. Then I had to change teacher and found you don't need all that speed to be a great guitar player. It was what kept me from giving up on guitar.
    But, I've been playing live other people's music for almost 20 years and sometimes I have a hard time with some stuff.
    I actually auditioned for an artist last year and all the solos on her songs were stupidly fast! I managed to keep the dynamics without the need to play that many notes but could not get the gig. She kept the same kid on guitar that had all the speed but was lazy and would play the stuff like the record 1 out of 5 times.
    Last week I auditioned for another artist and once again I had to change some parts because of my lack of speed. Fortunately the producer showed appreciation for how I came up with different options and gave me the gig.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Clarky said:
    I tend to treat speed [which I think of as 'note density'] as an effect..


    What a highly original thought .. I like it.

    Love your Soundcloud tracks ... got a new album coming out anytime soon? Loved the Shredz album .. rape of the Sabine women ... excellent track.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261

    Clarky said:
    I tend to treat speed [which I think of as 'note density'] as an effect..
    to my mind, effects are not just gain, delay, reverb, swirlies etc, but also include note selection, note density, direction, melodic lines and phrasing..
    I like to use different note densities to generate specific musical impacts.. long lyrical notes to create space and open out the solo.. greater densities to create a sense of urgency or to make a solo climax..

    the solo here starts around 3.00-ish mins
    note in this one the bulk of the sol is about space and melody.. however I use a few brief bursts to head into notes that climax.. and then tear into it a little more at the end for the final climax..




    this one follows a similar mentality but in a different context.. start melodic, then tear it up to increase the intensity..



    this one comes from a different place.. at the start I'm trying to be 'cool / sassy' sounding..
    then I just throw in something flash as that's just how I felt like playing at the time..
    having a little show-off here and there is fun..
    so it was less 'thought about' than the previous two.. I was playing more instinctively here


    that's wicked playing as ever. I must dig out your Shredz At An Exhibition CD again!
    thanks Vibe....
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • IvanMCIvanMC Frets: 91
    @Vibetronic that tore my head off. It was supreme! Congratulations, mate! Great note choice and phrasing... awesome speed.
    Here's my tiny contribution, which is non-existent at all compared with the majestic musicians we can see today.


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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036
    IvanMC said:
    @Vibetronic that tore my head off. It was supreme! Congratulations, mate! Great note choice and phrasing... awesome speed.
    Here's my tiny contribution, which is non-existent at all compared with the majestic musicians we can see today.


    cheers mate :) Very nice clip yourself and lovely phrasing. Also great use of slides which I always feel are under-rated  =)
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  • roberty said:
    Clarky said:

    economy - do not do anything at all that does not need doing.. sounds obvious don't it.. so don't swing the pick in a wider arc than needed.. don't apply any more pressure than needed.. etc.. be efficient..


    Found this extremely useful for left hand economy
    I have huge respect for Justin but I'm not totally convinced about focusing your thinking on keeping your fingers close to the fretboard in itself as a route to building speed.

    Once you build speed your fingers almost naturally start to stay closer. Also, watching the clips on this thread there's some great speed without the fingers staying ultra close, provided you can get your fingers to land in time.
    It's not a competition.
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    I think fast playing should be built up gradually so it can be done from slow to fast with everything in between ...iv heard so many fast players that really struggle with the intermediate stuff....it seems as though a lot of players can play fast but to play fast in time is more of a challenge specially when the tempo gets slower. 

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  • fastonebazfastonebaz Frets: 4065
    In terms of live playing, I try to play my version of fast,  which isn't really that fast,  but I try to find a melody in everything.  I wrote all these solos for my band.  Here's the live versions.  The audience love it and air guitar along with me sometimes chicks crash the stage. Seems to work well :)


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  • VibetronicVibetronic Frets: 1036
    Barney said:
    I think fast playing should be built up gradually so it can be done from slow to fast with everything in between ...iv heard so many fast players that really struggle with the intermediate stuff....it seems as though a lot of players can play fast but to play fast in time is more of a challenge specially when the tempo gets slower. 

    I tend to agree with that, but get @bingefeller with the point about doing it quickly to start with and just improving it over time. I guess different stuff works for different people.

    I think with picking it's worth doing it slowly to begin with just due to everything involved - to get the pick up/down moving strictly alternately, accurately, and using as little movement as possible, and then coordinating that with the left hand. That's partly as I never looked at alternate picking when I was learning to begin with, so my technique is a slightly messy hybrid of economy/alternate which I'm trying to rectify. 

    I found sweeping really easy to get into; it's just something I took to as soon as someone showed me how to do it, but making it sound interesting and musical is harder but cool. 

    I do seem to have really quick hands, but I think this is to compensate for the rest of me, which is definitely not quick; I've always been rubbish at any sport, cannot run fast, and have terrible hand-eye coordination  =)
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  • BarneyBarney Frets: 614
    Barney said:
    I think fast playing should be built up gradually so it can be done from slow to fast with everything in between ...iv heard so many fast players that really struggle with the intermediate stuff....it seems as though a lot of players can play fast but to play fast in time is more of a challenge specially when the tempo gets slower. 

    I tend to agree with that, but get @bingefeller with the point about doing it quickly to start with and just improving it over time. I guess different stuff works for different people.

    I think with picking it's worth doing it slowly to begin with just due to everything involved - to get the pick up/down moving strictly alternately, accurately, and using as little movement as possible, and then coordinating that with the left hand. That's partly as I never looked at alternate picking when I was learning to begin with, so my technique is a slightly messy hybrid of economy/alternate which I'm trying to rectify. 

    I found sweeping really easy to get into; it's just something I took to as soon as someone showed me how to do it, but making it sound interesting and musical is harder but cool. 

    I do seem to have really quick hands, but I think this is to compensate for the rest of me, which is definitely not quick; I've always been rubbish at any sport, cannot run fast, and have terrible hand-eye coordination  =)
    Yeah I think the way to increase the maximum speed you have is just like Bingefeller says ..but I hear a lot of people that seem to have mastered playing very fast but struggle with it playing at slower tempos ...for me not sure how everybody else is ...I use the wrist more on slower speeds and quicker use the arm from the elbow ...so both these require different techniques .. my picking isn't great though so I use a combination of other things :)
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