NOD.....

paulmapp8306

New organ day - though not a full blown organ - @horse ;;;;;;;

https://i.imgur.com/r2mQIAd.jpg


Completes my rig for now:

https://i.imgur.com/UxlsqF7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/feItXQQ.jpg

I say "for now" as I know Roland have something big coming in the summer.  Not sure what, but Im guessing (from hints) its a top end Workstation to rival Kronos/Montage/Stage 3 and if so, might replace my FA in the future.  But for now Im happy.

horse

Nice - now you can start scouring the internet for iconic drawbar settings

paulmapp8306

Have a few saved already.  I need some help with click levels and leslie settings though - Im not used to having so much adjust-ability in those areas.

octatonic

Wouldn't it be NOD, rather than NOG?

paulmapp8306

Yeh - just changed it.  Flipping phone fingers.

horse

paulmapp8306 said:

Have a few saved already.  I need some help with click levels and leslie settings though - Im not used to having so much adjust-ability in those areas.

i always tend to keep percussion off as none of the options ever sound right for how I play. That is probably just my lack of expertise really though.

I'm pretty basic slow/fast with Leslie too. Like guitar you usually want less gain / dirt in a mix than you initially think when in isolation.

Nomad

paulmapp8306 said:

Have a few saved already.  I need some help with click levels and leslie settings though - Im not used to having so much adjust-ability in those areas.

Try keeping the click quite subtle, more like having a feel of some attack than an obvious click sound. It's more about feeling that the organ is more responsive to key presses. To hear it better, try playing single note melodies with the lower 3 drawbars out and the rest in. It should be there when you listen for it, and feel like attack or responsiveness when you get into playing.

Leslie...

The rotor takes longer to speed up and slow down than the horn. In the range of a few seconds. Horn is maybe a second or so. On my Leslie (145), there's a 3-setting pulley on the horn drive, giving three speeds for each of fast and slow. I have it on the largest drive pulley, meaning fastest spin of the horn. No speed choices with the rotor - single drive pulley, so only one speed each for fast and slow.

Set the volume balance between the two to taste. The main two sounds for me are the rotor going slowly with mellow notes and chords, and the horn going quickly with chords that include high frequencies. The speed transitions are important, especially from the rotor, so try to avoid fixating on the screaming Hammond sound with mainly horn - give the rotor space to do its bit, especially when going from fast to slow.

Chords with lots of drawbars out, especially the higher pitched ones, help with the screaming Hammond sound, and try switching on chorus or vibrato for an extra boost. Pick a chorus/vibrato setting that works with your chosen horn speed - aim for something that feels asynchronous in modulation speed to get additional warble goodness.

Finally, try tweaking the drawbars while playing rather than just switching presets. Drawbars are the equivalent of pickup switches and EQ pedals with guitar - they let you sculpt the sound as you play. Nothing wrong with presets for particular sounds (like church organs, say), but the drawbars are where it's at. On my A100, I only really use the two presets on each manual that switch in the drawbars (set up a sound on each pair of drawbars for each manual, then switch between those, and fiddling with them as I go).

paulmapp8306

Thanks - thats great.

I do intend to use drawbars rather than presets - Im going to use the preset banks to save different type.  The module comes with a "generic" 30s, 50s and 70s organ sound, then a model of a BC, a B3 and an A100.  Im going to save 1 of each in the presets - with a Leslie setting and drawbar setting that suits - and some drive possibly on 1 or 2.   Everything else Im going ot "drive" properly.

Nomad

Would be interesting to know what the difference is between the B3 and A100 presets. An A100 is a B3 with built in speakers and reverb which can be connected to a Leslie. You can switch between internal or Leslie, or have both on. The reverb is always on so you can set it to Leslie only and then dial in a bit of non-Leslie reverb.

paulmapp8306

It a little brighter (only a very little) and a little more defined from what I can tell.  The B3 is slightly warmer.

The "modelled" options are from specific organ examples - including specific idiosyncrasies from the particular organ modelled. .  The BC being from a 1936 example, the B3 from a 56 and the A100 from a 73.  The other 3 options are generic idealised"what a 30s, 50s or 70s" generally sound like. 

paulmapp8306

@Nomad OK - Stock models are a generic 30s, a generic 50s and a generic 70s.  There are 3 user slots that come loaded with a 1936 BC, a 1956 B3 and a 1961 A100.  These are all models of a physical insrument.

These user organs can be replaced via an editor - and there are other models available (again modelled from specific examples) for free download.  These are:

1959 B3 DP
1962 C3 AM
1966 C3 PH
1962 A100 LS
1963 A100 EP

From the users facebook page, the stock 50s is close, the 59 B3 and 62 C3 are also very good.  Im going to download the 59 B3 and both the C3s and have a play today.

Nomad

I don't recognise the suffix letters - not part of the model or range designations. (A100s came with different finishes, but were distinguished as A100, A101, etc.) They could be a way of indicating the particular organs they're models of.

I find myself wondering what they modeled with the A100s. Although it's a B3 inside, it has the option to play through the internal speakers rather than a Leslie, but I don't think I'd be using that as the basis for the models - the overall tone of the Leslie is warmer and fuller, and they'd have to use an external speaker to get a sound out of the others. They could have used a Hammond Tone Cabinet (which is what Hammond would sell you when they weren't friends with Leslie), but I kinda doubt it. 

Anyway, doesn't matter - the only models worth bothering with are the ones you like playing.

paulmapp8306

True.  They all have slightly different tonality.  The C3s are darker and growlier, the A100s seem to be lighter and more percussive. The B3s are more balanced.  Each different version has something slightly different as well - more or less crosstalk, the harmonic of the crosstalk differs as well.  Its very subtle though.  Wouldnt really tell in a mix.

The standard 50s is a great start point, and Ive auditioned all the models, and selected the 3 I like most - more for variation than accuracy.  They are the 59 B3, the 62 A100  (the 61 says its a UK model, the 62 is a US one) and the 62 C3.  Those ones have a good blend of light and defined, through darker.  Also softer attack through to a harder edge.  Between those 4 models I can just pick and choose what suits more.

Its a really fun module actually.  While I do miss out on a waterfall keybed, Im actually glad I wen tthis way rather than replacing my FA07 with either a Nord Electro 6D or Roland VR630 730.  The basic tone, the leslie sim, the variations and definable parameters are all better than both those.  it really is only the keybed Im missing.

Roland have a new top tier board out in the summer - if there is a waterfall option (unlikely I guess but you never know) I might replace the FA07 with one of those. 

Nomad

There isn't really accuracy as such - they have a reputation for all sounding slightly different. I dare say it's mainly down to the recording techniques used over the years in conjunction with the acoustics of the recording environments. And, a miked up and recorded Leslie can sound a lot different to what the player hears in the room. Maybe within-tolerance variations of component values affecting the tonal balance of the amplified sound is a factor as well. It's a bit like high end guitars of a given model - they all have the characteristic sound of that model, but are subtly different. At a certain point, it's more down to player preference than attaining some abstract gold standard.

So far as I'm aware, there shouldn't be any sonic difference between the US and UK versions - same guts apart from the synchronous motors that drive the tonewheels having to match the 50Hz or 60Hz mains frequency, and the transformers running off the higher or lower mains voltages.

I can't comment on 3rd party waterfall keys, but the last few years has seen some very good clonewheel organs, so I'd expect any good maker to come up with keys that feel right. The original Hammond ones are excellent. They seem to have just the right feel for the instrument. Palm glissandos are a breeze. I started with a semi-weighted midi controller keyboard and a hardware sound module doing Hammond sounds, and it never felt right (palm glissandos were uncomfortable and I needed to angle my hand just right to get them to work). The proper keys were a revelation after that. The actual waterfall switching doesn't feature that much - only occasionally will a key press not go down all the way resulting in some tonewheels not triggering. It's more about the feel and playability, like a guitar neck that has an action and fret profile that feels right.