Songwriting help

hotpickups

Probably not the right section here but Hope you can help? At the Birmingham guitar a couple of years ago there was a stand who were selling a songwriting book/course. Can anyone remember who they were? Or even if you can recommend a songwriting course/book too? Not into too much theory as I’ll just glaze over but just feel there are songs in me that I just can’t get out

Hope you can help 

meltedbuzzbox

There are loads of books.

When you say song writing are you including vocals in this?

hotpickups

meltedbuzzbox said:

There are loads of books.

When you say song writing are you including vocals in this?

It will be. My band are having a go at some original material but I refuse to write any lyrics because I’m crap at words but yes the songs will be vocal songs. I’m just coming up with a riff or chord structure and will be collaborative 

meltedbuzzbox

This gets great reviews

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Songwriting-Without-Boundaries-Writing-Exercises/dp/1599632977&ved=2ahUKEwj1-oXp9u_hAhU0RRUIHUp8DkgQFjALegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw29JNSfiodBgGQSO9XbAk2N

hotpickups

meltedbuzzbox said:

This gets great reviews

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Songwriting-Without-Boundaries-Writing-Exercises/dp/1599632977&ved=2ahUKEwj1-oXp9u_hAhU0RRUIHUp8DkgQFjALegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw29JNSfiodBgGQSO9XbAk2N

Thanks but that is more for lyric writing?

AlexO

I'm going to be a bastard here and be the one to say. Surely it's not something you can teach or learn ... you either have the natural talent and melody or you don't.
I tried for years and sadly I don't. 

hotpickups

AlexO said:

I'm going to be a bastard here and be the one to say. Surely it's not something you can teach or learn ... you either have the natural talent and melody or you don't.
I tried for years and sadly I don't. 

Well it can’t be too different from writing a guitar solo. I create melody in the solo from the chord sequence by ear well enough. 

Im just stuck creatively when it comes starting from scratch and falling into the trap of sounding like another song etc 

Iamnobody

It’s an interesting subject. I’ve never attempted to write songs as in lyrics and chord sequences but like you I have effectively contributed to songs with riffs, melody, solos etc once the basic structure is in place.

AlexO

hotpickups said:

AlexO said:

I'm going to be a bastard here and be the one to say. Surely it's not something you can teach or learn ... you either have the natural talent and melody or you don't.
I tried for years and sadly I don't. 

Well it can’t be too different from writing a guitar solo. I create melody in the solo from the chord sequence by ear well enough. 

Im just stuck creatively when it comes starting from scratch and falling into the trap of sounding like another song etc 

Sorry just read your other post about not writing lyrics.
I was reading song writing as a whole structure of song not just the music.
My bad 

hotpickups

Just wish I could remember the company who wrote a whole series of books on the subject who were selling them at the Guitar show

meltedbuzzbox

hotpickups said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

This gets great reviews

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Songwriting-Without-Boundaries-Writing-Exercises/dp/1599632977&ved=2ahUKEwj1-oXp9u_hAhU0RRUIHUp8DkgQFjALegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw29JNSfiodBgGQSO9XbAk2N

Thanks but that is more for lyric writing?

It is but it goes over song structure and other things.
There isn't really a magic book that will tell you how to do things exactly.

Just get started with a 4 chord pattern, manipulate the rhythm, try swapping major for minor chords. Make mistakes as it's the best way to learn things.
Try riffs, play them backwards, mess about and have fun. Something will come

prlgmnr

AlexO said:

I'm going to be a bastard here and be the one to say. Surely it's not something you can teach or learn ... you either have the natural talent and melody or you don't.
I tried for years and sadly I don't. 

Not with that attitude.

Ddigger

Was it 'the guitarists solo and song writing companion' by Paul Ramsay and Sarah Worley?

Rikki Rooksby has several books on songwriting, some are guitar orientated.  How to write songs on guitar and the song writing sourcebook, might be a place to start.

hotpickups

Ddigger said:

Was it 'the guitarists solo and song writing companion' by Paul Ramsay and Sarah Worley?

Rikki Rooksby has several books on songwriting, some are guitar orientated.  How to write songs on guitar and the song writing sourcebook, might be a place to start.

Yes @Ddigger I think that was it. It looked good when flicking through it but didn't take the plunge and kind of regretted it ever since. I can get one on Amazon I see now  

hotpickups

hotpickups said:

Ddigger said:

Was it 'the guitarists solo and song writing companion' by Paul Ramsay and Sarah Worley?

Rikki Rooksby has several books on songwriting, some are guitar orientated.  How to write songs on guitar and the song writing sourcebook, might be a place to start.

Yes @Ddigger I think that was it. It looked good when flicking through it but didn't take the plunge and kind of regretted it ever since. I can get one on Amazon I see now  

I bought this book in the end and I thoroughly recommend it. Thanks for the pointers guys

Legionreturns

Get on the looper, or better still, a Trio+

I find that to be the best songwriting tool hands down. 

hotpickups

Legionreturns said:

Get on the looper, or better still, a Trio+

I find that to be the best songwriting tool hands down. 

Yeah I think that's a very good idea i.e. Trio+. Don't suppose anyone has got one for sale?

pintspiller

Get some hardware and get started!

Shortly after I started to play I remember reading in a magazine (probably Guitarist as it was the only one at the time and I don't think they were importing the American ones at the time) that a good way to learn how to improvise was to play along to a recording of yourself playing chords.

I bought a system that included a four-track cassette recorder by Amstrad and almost immediately started writing songs. I listened to a lot of Stooges, Neil Young and Sex Pistols so everything sounded like third rate copies or a homage.

Most of my earlier stuff was garbage, but I was experimenting with progressions and structures from everything I listened too. In all honesty, learning how to arrange songs kind of spoiled my enjoyment of listening.

I got better at writing. Nothing terribly notable or groundbreaking I guess otherwise I'd like to think I may have been more successful.

Legionreturns

hotpickups said:

Legionreturns said:

Get on the looper, or better still, a Trio+

I find that to be the best songwriting tool hands down. 

Yeah I think that's a very good idea i.e. Trio+. Don't suppose anyone has got one for sale?

I haven't actually used mine for months, as I have a multitrack looper and Zoom R16 which gets more use now. I could actually free up some board space if I got rid of the Trio+ and Footswitch. Happy to have a chat about it if you want on pm

hotpickups

Legionreturns said:

hotpickups said:

Legionreturns said:

Get on the looper, or better still, a Trio+

I find that to be the best songwriting tool hands down. 

Yeah I think that's a very good idea i.e. Trio+. Don't suppose anyone has got one for sale?

I haven't actually used mine for months, as I have a multitrack looper and Zoom R16 which gets more use now. I could actually free up some board space if I got rid of the Trio+ and Footswitch. Happy to have a chat about it if you want on pm

Yeah let's talk. I've PM'd you @Legionreturns ;

randerson

Pat Pattison writes some good books. Teaches songwriting at Berklee and has had John Mayer and Gillian Welch amongst past students. Some of his ideas have been very helpful for me, others less so.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pat-Pattison/e/B001KMFZ02

Another good book is 'Tunesmith' by Jimmy Webb.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tunesmith-Inside-Songwriting-Jimmy-Webb/dp/0786884886/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=songwriting+webb&qid=1557124786&s=books&sr=1-1-catcorr