Questions about Bass playing

Rocker

I am thinking of getting a bass guitar.  Something like a Squier.  Nothing very expensive.  The Squier pack includes an amp.  I would like something 'better' than the supplied amp but, as space in our music room is limited, an amp/speaker that is not too large.  Anyone care to suggest an amp/speaker that will meet my needs [no intention of gigging]

How do I eliminate the noise made when fretting a bass guitar?  In other words how do I get the notes of Thin Lizzy 'Dancing in the moonlight" without the crackle/noise of finger slides etc.  This does not happen on my electric guitar [only on my brother-in-law's Squier bass].

Thanks in advance.

monquixote

What's your budget for the amp?

I seem to recall Laney used to do some decent cheap bass amps.

In terms of finger noise maybe roll off a bit of treble and then it's just a case of applying the right amount of pressure with the left and muting with the right.

chrispy108

Not got a specific recommendation, but I play bass through my Zoom G3 and then M-Audio Studiophile monitors are get a sound I'm really happy with. I find them better quality, with more tonal variation than the cheap bass practice amps I've played at home.

As for your second point, practice, and a bit more volume maybe? I find bass an inherently louder instrument acoustically than an electric guitar.

For me, muting is more important in bass than guitar, with the picking and fretting hands, and it takes time to get the feel right.

stickyfiddle

Muting on bass is really important, and something I haven't fully got the hang of yet... The strings have so much more energy when they're moving compared to electric that you often have to mute with both hands, which is a bit tricky.

fretmeister

Flatwound strings have very little finger noise. They tend to be higher tension though so make sure you go by tension rather than gauge. For example I usually have 45-105 rounds on my precision, but 40-95 flatwounds (D'Addario Chromes)

 And of course one of these will help too 

http://www.essentialsound.com/musiccord-pro-power-cord/index.htm

Rocker

fretmeister said:

Flatwound strings have very little finger noise. They tend to be higher tension though so make sure you go by tension rather than gauge. For example I usually have 45-105 rounds on my precision, but 40-95 flatwounds (D'Addario Chromes)

 And of course one of these will help too 

http://www.essentialsound.com/musiccord-pro-power-cord/index.htm

If one of those cables would help my guitar/bass playing, I will get two ) Thanks for the info on strings, will keep that in mind

ICBM

The Squier P-Bass pack looks ideal. The P-Bass is inherently less noise-prone than the Jazz and will give you more of that Phil Lynott sound.

The amp is a Fender Rumble 15, which in all honesty is probably overpriced when sold separately, but fine as part of a starter package where it works out cheaper. It's not at all loud, but it does have a decent tone and most importantly for such a small amp, a built-in limiter so you can't overdrive it and make nasty noises/blow the speaker.

As fretmeister said, flatwound strings will eliminate the finger noise.

fretmeister

Phil Lynott used Rotosound Monel Flatwound strings.

If you have even a hint of nickel allergy don't use them. They are also monster high tension.

I like the sound of them, but they are damn hard work. I swapped to Chromes.

chrispy108

What about something like this @Rocker?

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/235972-swr-la10-bass-combo-l99/

fretmeister said:

 And of course one of these will help too 

http://www.essentialsound.com/musiccord-pro-power-cord/index.htm

Man, that makes me want to get a job for trading standards and sort that out.

I'm all for free will and owning nice expensive things, but there's some flat out lies on that site.

UnclePsychosis

If you've no intention of gigging then just use a guitar amp to start with. It'll sound good enough, just don't turn it up too loud (you risk damaging the speaker if you crank it up).

Eliminate finger noise with technique (right and left handed) and/or with flatwound strings (but this will change the sound of the notes you do want). 

Rocker

Thanks guys for the answers.

I will look at the Squier P Bass pack @ICBM, thanks for the heads up.

Needing a technique or method to eliminate unwanted sounds is something that I did not expect when I first picked up a bass guitar @UnclePsychosis.  I had assumed that it was a matter of WHAT to play.  Now I know that I have to learn HOW to play it too.

@chrispy108, just wondering (without wanting to start a war), how do you prove that the site alluded to by @Fretmeister has "some flat out lies"?

monquixote

I'd fix it with technique rather than flat wounds

chrispy108

No problem @Rocker. ;

I've got no problem with people buying nice things, and yes, if you've got an expensive rig, as lots of people do, a $200 power cable isn't the end of the world cost wise is it? And they can have their last point on build quality, and would be the only reason I'd spend extra money on a power cable.

What I object to, is things that scientifically are impossible. Unless you're comparing it to a broken/massively undersized cable, there is no way that a power cord is going to do any of these things.

I'm ignoring the comments from reviews here, just looking at the manufacturers copy.

Increased Dynamics, Volume & Headroom

"Your amplifier will be capable of playing louder yet sound effortless! Tube amplifiers especially benefit from the plentyful extra-fast current delivery!"

Clear nonsense, do you think standard kettle leads are supplying the electricity slowly? How is a cable going to make the amp louder? If a thicker cable could make a valve amp louder, do you not think manufacturers would have worked this out and sold them as accessories?

Improved Clarity, Resolution, Transient Speed

With MusicCord-PRO, transients are crisp and clean.Ear-fatiguing midrange harshness is eliminated. Stereo imaging including soundstage positioning and spatial cues are clearly revealed.

The cable isn't going to be hold the amp back with regards transients. 'Midrange harshness' is down to design/quality of amp/speaker components, I cannot see how a power cable can eliminate issues with these things?

A standard power cable would be around 18 gauge (US), Musiccord is 16, Pro is 14. Note, this is for each of the three wires within the cable (live/neutral/ground).

These wires have current capacities of: 14A/18A/25A, so the overall capacity would be tripled. As the plug is going to have a 13A plug in it (at most), the cable simply isn't going to be a limiting factor. If it was, you'd be in trouble anyway, as the wiring in your house the other side of the plug socket will be smaller than that, as will the power wiring within the device.

chrispy108

Agree with @monquixote's point there, get your muting down with roundwounds, then if you prefer the sound/feel of flats change down the line, but I'd recommend getting the techniques sorted, as they're so important to good bassing.

LastMantra

Just been playing a bit of bass and it struck me that it's a little bit like playing guitar with loads of distortion in that, if you want to keep it fairly clean, you need to pay a bit more attention to the "other" strings to stop things getting out of control. 

chrispy108

Good way to putting it @LastMantra I'd not thought of it, but I guess it explains why I've never had problems with it on bass, as I started by playing guitar with far too much gain, so it makes sense I learnt those skills there and bought them with me.

Rocker

@chrispy108, You inadvertently found yourself in the same position as I was in some time ago.  It is impossible to 'prove' or 'disprove' something when the effect or non effect is audio sound quality.  Science is absolute, audio is not.  Science uses measurements, audio uses your ears.  Sometimes the two don't meet.  In a court of law your 'proof' that what the cables are claimed to do is impossible would be laughed out of court by a mediocre lawyer.  I know what this feels like, I spent many hours defending my beliefs and knowledge that cables DO make a difference and the choice of the correct cables can make or break a sound system.  How do you show that a cable can turn a good system into an exceptional one.  The obvious answer is by listening.  This response is thrown out as impossible or the writer starts on about resistance etc.

I agree with you on your main points, absurd claims are made about cables in a hi-fi system.  But would you use any old set of strings on your main guitar?  Me neither.  But then I would not use any old cable on my hi-fi system.  It would still 'work' but I would guarantee you that it will sound worse than it does now.  And worse is still pretty good TBH but it would be worse.

chrispy108

I'm not inadvertently in any position @Rocker. This stuff can all be measured and quantified. I'm not saying my quick forum post would be enough in court, I'd buy some and do some tests! Science.

The brain is a weird thing, and if you spend £200 on a power cable, plug it in then sit down to listen, then your brain will enjoy it more than if you hadn't, because humans don't like to be tricked or wrong. It doesn't mean it actually sounds any better or worse.

Cables are passive devices, they are only going to "take away" from the power/sound, they cannot "add" anything.

I can somewhat accept expensive signal cables (to a point, you obviously hit a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly). 

But just as you wouldn't just upgrade one signal cable in the middle of your expensive hifi, whilst keeping shit cables in between the others, just changing the cable between the wall and your guitar amp isn't going to change anything. Have you had your house re-wired with thicker cable? What about the power cables within the unit?

If there was any truth in this, do you not think Bose and B&O would be selling their products with thicker power cables?

If your expensive hifi cables mean you enjoy your setup more, and you can afford it, then great, knock yourself out.

ICBM

Rocker said:

It is impossible to 'prove' or 'disprove' something when the effect or non effect is audio sound quality.

You can easily prove it. All you need to do is do proper comparisons. Where audible differences exist you can prove it, conclusively. Where they don't appear to you can at least show that they don't matter.

Rocker said:

Science uses measurements, audio uses your ears.

To do proper testing all you need are your ears, and the right way of comparing two things in a way so you don't know which is in use, or to switch while you're actually listening so you can hear if there is a change.

Rocker said:

The obvious answer is by listening.  This response is thrown out as impossible or the writer starts on about resistance etc.

I'm not talking about measuring anything either, I'm talking about proper listening tests and not "belief". Simply replacing one component with another in your full knowledge of which is in use and believing you can hear a difference is just the wrong way of doing it.

If you *want* to find out properly whether cables make a difference, as I said before I would be happy to build you a switching box.

fretmeister

Rocker said:

.......  In a court of law your 'proof' that what the cables are claimed to do is impossible would be laughed out of court by a mediocre lawyer.......

No.

A lawyer would present 'scope measurements and double blind testing results.

The judgment would be given on those results and not the anecdotal recollections of individuals enjoying a psychosomatic / placebo effect.

If there is NO difference in 'scope readings the trial would stop there and the cable manufacturer would lose at that point.

If there is any difference in 'scope readings then those readings would be accompanied with a report from an ENT Surgeon explaining whether the differences were of sufficient magnitude for the human ear to detect it. (Actually detect it - not placebo)

If the answer is no (and so far all blind testing has only given this answer) then the cable maker loses the case at this point.

If the answer is Yes, the difference is detectable by the human ear, then the evidence from the ENT surgeon will also deal with the ear's reduction in capabilities over time, the loss of treble hearing that occurs massively before the age of 30 etc etc and whether the claims by the maker as presented to any buyer are proper claims to make. If the difference is technically detectable by the perfectly functioning human ear, but in reality only 25% of humans can actually detect it, then the cable maker loses at this point. As it is most likely that the customer base for the cables is middle age or older that demographic will be taken into account in argument.

Your notional mediocre lawyer wouldn't even take the case on, on behalf of the cable company because it's a loser from day 1.

And I do note that you like to use example from law.

I find this to be a particularly delicious irony. You know nothing of the law (otherwise you wouldn't have used the example) - but you clearly know more about the process of law than you do about the scientific method and proper testing.

 

Jalapeno