New Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster album recording starting tomorrow!

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Spent the evening setting up the studio.

AMEK Angela 24 track console. Orion 32 AD/DA converter. Apollo x8p preamps modelling Neve 73 pre's.

32 channels to play with, drums start tomorrow!
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  • StrangefanStrangefan Frets: 3180
    Nice, when's the Potential eta?
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  • Nice, when's the Potential eta?
    This year is all I know right now bae xx
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  • equalsqlequalsql Frets: 3512
    Cool, that sounds like you're gonna have a lot of fun :).
    Is this a home-built studio you're using or a commercial jobbie?

    Also.. got any pics? 
    (pronounced: equal-sequel)   "I suffered for my art.. now it's your turn"
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  • joeyowenjoeyowen Frets: 3440
    Pics! 
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  • equalsql said:
    Cool, that sounds like you're gonna have a lot of fun :).
    Is this a home-built studio you're using or a commercial jobbie?

    Also.. got any pics? 
    joeyowen said:
    Pics! 


    It's at the work studio, which I and my mate (and colleague) built. We're literally under the river Thames throughout the day!!

    Probably post some small vidya over the weekend, maybe even some live Facebook streams.
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 2829
    Keep us updated Drew, will be interested in this. I've enjoyed all your previous stuff too. Ace.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 5511
    It would be good to see the process in action
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 13132
    Fab! 
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  • Not had a chance to post much, too busy, but we did do a little studio walk-through stream type of thing.

    https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/815328515516883/
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 4754
    sure you're busy smashing it instead of posting updates! :)
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  • https://www.instagram.com/p/BxYI7sDFbVg/

    Will post some sound clips of the drums soon.
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1044
    Not had a chance to post much, too busy, but we did do a little studio walk-through stream type of thing.

    https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/815328515516883/
    Not sure you have quite enough mics on your drumset? 
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 4754
    Branshen said:
    Not had a chance to post much, too busy, but we did do a little studio walk-through stream type of thing.

    https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/815328515516883/
    Not sure you have quite enough mics on your drumset? 
    Didnt seem that unusual to me apart from the 3 snare mics and maybe the distance of the sub mic. The rest all seemed pretty standard.
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1044
    Didnt seem that unusual to me apart from the 3 snare mics and maybe the distance of the sub mic. The rest all seemed pretty standard.
    Yea, that and the 3 overheads and additional ambient mics. But I guess that it isn't thaaaat unusual. I'm just messing. Im sure it'll sound great.
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  • Branshen said:
    Not had a chance to post much, too busy, but we did do a little studio walk-through stream type of thing.

    https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/815328515516883/
    Not sure you have quite enough mics on your drumset? 
    1. Kick In - Audix D6
    2. Kick Out - AKG D112
    3. Sub Speaker - JBL speaker
    4. Snare Top 1 - SM57
    5. Snare Top 2 - SE Electronics SE3A
    6. Snare Top 3 - Rode M3
    7. Snare Bottom - SM58 (Cap removed)
    8. Low Floor Tom - Sennheiser E602
    9. High Floor Tom - Shure Beta 52a
    10. Rack Tom - Sennheiser MD421
    11. Hihat - Rode NT5
    12+13. Room Hat/Ride - Avantone CK-1
    14+15. Overhead Hat/Ride - AKG C451b
    16. Overhead Middle - Oktava MK-220.
    17+18. PZM Hat/Ride - Misc. PZM mics from eBay
    19. Mono Room - Neumann TLM103.
    20. Mono Kit Ribbon - AEA Ribbon
    21. Talkback - Shure Beta SM57a.

    It's a fairly standard set.

    Branshen said:
    Not had a chance to post much, too busy, but we did do a little studio walk-through stream type of thing.

    https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/815328515516883/
    Not sure you have quite enough mics on your drumset? 
    Didnt seem that unusual to me apart from the 3 snare mics and maybe the distance of the sub mic. The rest all seemed pretty standard.
    It was too subby when put very close, so we backed it off until the huge low-end resonance calmed down and the mic was in-phase with the other kicks and overheads.
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  • TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 4754
    Branshen said:
    Not had a chance to post much, too busy, but we did do a little studio walk-through stream type of thing.

    https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/815328515516883/
    Not sure you have quite enough mics on your drumset? 
    1. Kick In - Audix D6
    2. Kick Out - AKG D112
    3. Sub Speaker - JBL speaker
    4. Snare Top 1 - SM57
    5. Snare Top 2 - SE Electronics SE3A
    6. Snare Top 3 - Rode M3
    7. Snare Bottom - SM58 (Cap removed)
    8. Low Floor Tom - Sennheiser E602
    9. High Floor Tom - Shure Beta 52a
    10. Rack Tom - Sennheiser MD421
    11. Hihat - Rode NT5
    12+13. Room Hat/Ride - Avantone CK-1
    14+15. Overhead Hat/Ride - AKG C451b
    16. Overhead Middle - Oktava MK-220.
    17+18. PZM Hat/Ride - Misc. PZM mics from eBay
    19. Mono Room - Neumann TLM103.
    20. Mono Kit Ribbon - AEA Ribbon
    21. Talkback - Shure Beta SM57a.

    It's a fairly standard set.

    Branshen said:
    Not had a chance to post much, too busy, but we did do a little studio walk-through stream type of thing.

    https://www.facebook.com/tnbduk/videos/815328515516883/
    Not sure you have quite enough mics on your drumset? 
    Didnt seem that unusual to me apart from the 3 snare mics and maybe the distance of the sub mic. The rest all seemed pretty standard.
    It was too subby when put very close, so we backed it off until the huge low-end resonance calmed down and the mic was in-phase with the other kicks and overheads.
    I'm impressed the SPL is high enough to get a decent SNR from it. I guess since it's for sub you do have the advantage that you can aggressively filter highs to get rid if any preamp noise.

    Obv it's more common to see those sub mics right up against the skin.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 4754
    Also good old reaper :)
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  • SPL was actually pretty decent tbh!
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  • Jonathanthomas83Jonathanthomas83 Frets: 2287
    Good luck for the recording, can't wait to hear it. All your stuff has inspired me.
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  • Spent all of today checking phase and comping takes together. The in-depth editing will start next week. Need to basically get fully comp'd tracks together so our bassist can practice his ass off when I'm away in Japan starting next weekend.

    Might put out a little teaser video before then though.
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  • NerineNerine Frets: 833
    20 odd mics? Jesus. Best of luck keeping that all in phase. If it were me, I’d lose nearly half of them as that could get pretty smeary very easily as none of that is ever going to be perfectly in phase.
    Then again, I would never have a middle overhead, more than one stereo room, (occasionally a crunched up mono to go with the stereo room) and three snare top mics. 
    Also, a 52 and a 602? on the floor toms? 
    I’d be interested to hear what that all sounds like, regardless. 

    I know now it’s literally none of my business, but reading the list of what’s mic’d where, I’d definitely lose some channels/option paralysis and repurpose some of the less important channels’ microphones to do a more suitable job. 

    TLM103 rather than D112 on the kick out for starters, and lose some snare top mics and use them on the toms. 

    IMO that looks like lots of mics just because. 
    Not trying to trash the setup at all, I just think it seems like a strange mic choice on each source, when some mics would be maybe better elsewhere. 

    Plus, literally no one wants to mix 21 channels of drums. 

    Kick In
    Kick Out 
    Sn Top
    Sn Bot
    Hat
    Rack
    Floor 
    Floor 
    OHL
    OHR 
    Room L
    Room R 
    Mono room  


    13. Done. Cleaner. Simpler. 

    Some great overheads and rooms and you could probably go down to 8 mics quite easily. :) 
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  • mudslide73mudslide73 Frets: 1872
     Can't wait to hear this stuff.. are you still instrumental only?
    "A city star won’t shine too far"


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  • meltedbuzzboxmeltedbuzzbox Frets: 8424
    Nerine said:
    20 odd mics? Jesus. Best of luck keeping that all in phase. If it were me, I’d lose nearly half of them as that could get pretty smeary very easily as none of that is ever going to be perfectly in phase.
    Then again, I would never have a middle overhead, more than one stereo room, (occasionally a crunched up mono to go with the stereo room) and three snare top mics. 
    Also, a 52 and a 602? on the floor toms? 
    I’d be interested to hear what that all sounds like, regardless. 

    I know now it’s literally none of my business, but reading the list of what’s mic’d where, I’d definitely lose some channels/option paralysis and repurpose some of the less important channels’ microphones to do a more suitable job. 

    TLM103 rather than D112 on the kick out for starters, and lose some snare top mics and use them on the toms. 

    IMO that looks like lots of mics just because. 
    Not trying to trash the setup at all, I just think it seems like a strange mic choice on each source, when some mics would be maybe better elsewhere. 

    Plus, literally no one wants to mix 21 channels of drums. 

    Kick In
    Kick Out 
    Sn Top
    Sn Bot
    Hat
    Rack
    Floor 
    Floor 
    OHL
    OHR 
    Room L
    Room R 
    Mono room  


    13. Done. Cleaner. Simpler. 

    Some great overheads and rooms and you could probably go down to 8 mics quite easily. :) 
    Just use ez drummer innit :-p
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • NerineNerine Frets: 833
    Nerine said:
    20 odd mics? Jesus. Best of luck keeping that all in phase. If it were me, I’d lose nearly half of them as that could get pretty smeary very easily as none of that is ever going to be perfectly in phase.
    Then again, I would never have a middle overhead, more than one stereo room, (occasionally a crunched up mono to go with the stereo room) and three snare top mics. 
    Also, a 52 and a 602? on the floor toms? 
    I’d be interested to hear what that all sounds like, regardless. 

    I know now it’s literally none of my business, but reading the list of what’s mic’d where, I’d definitely lose some channels/option paralysis and repurpose some of the less important channels’ microphones to do a more suitable job. 

    TLM103 rather than D112 on the kick out for starters, and lose some snare top mics and use them on the toms. 

    IMO that looks like lots of mics just because. 
    Not trying to trash the setup at all, I just think it seems like a strange mic choice on each source, when some mics would be maybe better elsewhere. 

    Plus, literally no one wants to mix 21 channels of drums. 

    Kick In
    Kick Out 
    Sn Top
    Sn Bot
    Hat
    Rack
    Floor 
    Floor 
    OHL
    OHR 
    Room L
    Room R 
    Mono room  


    13. Done. Cleaner. Simpler. 

    Some great overheads and rooms and you could probably go down to 8 mics quite easily. :) 
    Just use ez drummer innit :-p
    Superior 3. ;)

    Hehe. 

    Needless to say some of the “drummers” I’ve worked with over the years have required me to “edit” their stuff quite hard. 

    And of course, when I say “edit” I mean “completely re-program using Superior Drummer”. Haha. 

    To be fair I’m working with a band at the moment that have provided me with MIDI for the drums and are happy for them to stay that way/programmed. They took videos of their drummer playing through the songs and then edited the midi data to reflect his performance as closely as possible. 

    I’m then going to fine tune some of the velocities and quantisation to further humanise the odd bit here and there, and Superior Drummer 3 is going to provide me with the multi tracks. Personally, I like working this way. Gives us a lot of flexibility, and we can tweak kick and snare patterns etc right up until the vocals are finished and I’m ready to mix everything. Plus, when done properly it’s pretty much indistinguishable from the “real” drums. They’re just expertly recorded, clean, in phase, tight, consistent etc etc. 

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  • WiresDreamDisastersWiresDreamDisasters Frets: 2412
    edited May 23
    Nerine said:
    20 odd mics? Jesus. Best of luck keeping that all in phase. If it were me, I’d lose nearly half of them as that could get pretty smeary very easily as none of that is ever going to be perfectly in phase.
    Then again, I would never have a middle overhead, more than one stereo room, (occasionally a crunched up mono to go with the stereo room) and three snare top mics. 
    Also, a 52 and a 602? on the floor toms? 
    I’d be interested to hear what that all sounds like, regardless. 

    I know now it’s literally none of my business, but reading the list of what’s mic’d where, I’d definitely lose some channels/option paralysis and repurpose some of the less important channels’ microphones to do a more suitable job. 

    TLM103 rather than D112 on the kick out for starters, and lose some snare top mics and use them on the toms. 

    IMO that looks like lots of mics just because. 
    Not trying to trash the setup at all, I just think it seems like a strange mic choice on each source, when some mics would be maybe better elsewhere. 

    Plus, literally no one wants to mix 21 channels of drums. 

    Kick In
    Kick Out 
    Sn Top
    Sn Bot
    Hat
    Rack
    Floor 
    Floor 
    OHL
    OHR 
    Room L
    Room R 
    Mono room  


    13. Done. Cleaner. Simpler. 

    Some great overheads and rooms and you could probably go down to 8 mics quite easily.  
    Ooo! I love a good "too many drum mics" sparring session!

    Here's a clip of all of the mics:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgaq8fmonnsi6ua/TruthEscapes_QuickExport.wav?dl=0

    Here's a clip of directs, overheads, PZMs, and Sub:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/thbmlb3xwsvy8lj/TruthEscapes_QuickExport_SmallSelection.wav?dl=0

    Raw mics. No additional EQ or compression, just what was tracked. No de-bleeding of any tom or snare tracks. There is a UAD Distressor on the Mono Kit channel, so the width isn't as pronounced in the 'all mics' clip as it is in the 'small selection' clip.

    These clips are completely unedited aside from comping together three takes - one for the toms at the start, with the cymbal pings on their own set of tracks (separate from the toms for mix purposes), and then there is a new take for the actual beat that comes in.

    Simply put - not going to be using all of the mics at the same time, and even if I do, it wont be all of the time.

    To expand though... I like to capture a variety of tones and then use specific ones in specific sections of songs. Mono rooms for example, I like to use during tom fills and breakdowns, and maybe during a chorus if I need a bit of extra mush to crunch up the kick and snare. It really depends on what the song calls for. I may not even using the same "mix" of microphones for every song. Again, it depends on what the song calls for.

    RE: Phase.

    Phase is really down to the direct microphones on the kit versus the overheads. Most other microphones are so far away from the kit (room mics, pzm's, etc..) that at that point you're not concerned with screwing the impact of the drums, rather you're concerned with getting the right flavour when adding those mics in. Sometimes dragging them ahead in time after the fact can change the tone, which I sometimes do, but I try to get it right at the source as much as I can.

    So you're right, there is no way to get that many microphones completely in phase for every single instrument. But the reality is, you don't need to. As long as there aren't huge problems, you're good to go.

    RE: Overheads.

    Our drummer has a lot of cymbals, and I wanted to be sure that I captured the entire spread. This was something I stole from the Joe Barresi interview with MixOnline, he talks about having a 3rd overhead in the middle and how he automates the level of it for specific fills and cymbals. Again, it depends on what the song calls for.

    RE: Number of mics.

    I might have an intro to the song where everything is chilled out. So I drop the kick in from the mix and only use the kick out. Then it might explode into a more heavy section, so I bring the kick in back into the mix to get the extra snap required for fast double kick bits. That's one example. Likewise with the snare mics - dynamic might sound good for one part, condenser for another.

    RE: TLM103.

    The TLM sounds really good as a kick out microphone, but I prefer it as a mono room mic situated just about waist height a few feet away from the kit. It gets an overall impression of the kit, which I then put through a Distressor to crush the absolute living shit out of it. This channel is my "intensity" channel, which I can ride the fader of and bring it up for bits where I want the drums to punish a bit more. It's not an always on mic for me.

    RE: Literally no-one wants to mix 21 channels of drums.

    Well... erm.. I do. Sorry!

    RE: Going down to 8 mics.

    Sure, you absolutely can do that, and there probably will be sections of songs where only 8 mics will be running live. In fact all the cymbal swell sections and the hihat only sections, I'll probably just come down to OH's only.

    RE: It looks like a load of mics just because.

    Not really. I have something in mind for each one or pair of mics. Whether they will make the final cut is a completely different thing, but I know what I'm doing. Not to be too defensive or anything, coz really I do enjoy these sorts of debates, but I kinda know what I'm doing. I record drums for a living. If you've bought any of the FXpansion BFD packs made in the last 5-6 years, I recorded them (with my production partner).

    I'm always eager to learn new things though. I don't know absolutely everything about tuning, recording, or playing drums. But it is a world I've been immersed in for over a decade now. I'd like to think I know some stuff!

    It's a little amusing to me that you're questioning the number of microphones I've got, and then recommend people use Superior Drummer 3, which probably has more mics available than what I'm using!

    PS: I do use Superior 3.0 myself, coz I love drum software and drums in general. I prefer recording them above any other instrument!

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  •  Can't wait to hear this stuff.. are you still instrumental only?
    Tbh, only the first album was 100% instrumental. Exegesis had a few vocal tracks on it, and Wires/Dream\Wires has one vocal track on it. The new album will have at least one vocal track on it. So we're about.. I dunno, 60% instrumental! :)
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 567
    Nice dive on the tom there!

    Are you tuning the drums to the key of the song? The kick in particular has quite a definite pitch to it. Could be awkward if it turns out to be a semitone away from the root of the song!
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  • Stuckfast said:
    Nice dive on the tom there!

    Are you tuning the drums to the key of the song? The kick in particular has quite a definite pitch to it. Could be awkward if it turns out to be a semitone away from the root of the song!
    Didn't tune to the key of the song to be honest. I don't think it's always necessary, although I've done it before. Drummer tuned and I tweaked. He wanted the toms to have that dive-y quality, it's taken a little time to get used to if I'm honest because that's not how I tune drums typically. Typically I go for quite a solid note with as little pitch drop as possible, but I don't think that would've worked for these songs tbh. Too much tone to deal with. He's after thuddy low-endy toms, which is fine by me!

    I'll probably use our transient designer to take off a bit of that tail, sorta depends what happens under a bit of compression.

    Finally, Waves have a cool plugin called Torque which can work well for sorta changing the fundamental pitch of a drum. So I could whack that on the kick if it becomes a problem, but I don't think it will.

    The big question I am struggling with right now is how much editing and tightening to do. Some sections where he's going double kick mad might benefit from it, but I also kinda like the idea of leaving it as natural as possible.
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7524

    The big question I am struggling with right now is how much editing and tightening to do. Some sections where he's going double kick mad might benefit from it, but I also kinda like the idea of leaving it as natural as possible.

    The eternal struggle.

    I’ve decided it’s all about how it feels and to try to not overthink it from a philosophical angle because if done well not many are going to worry about what was done to the audio
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