Camcorders?

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robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
edited June 20 in Off Topic
My daughter wants to make you tube videos. I figured a you tube video wont need anything exotic to film it, I was wrong.

I bought her this.
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/camcorders/camcorders/digital-camcorders/canon-legria-hf-r86-camcorder-black-10159649-pdt.html

The video is very grainy and looks horrid! I have not tried it outdoors as she wont really be using it outdoors.

So it has to go back!

I was thinking would any of these be better?

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/camcorders/camcorders/digital-camcorders/sony-hdr-pj410b-camcorder-black-10118469-pdt.html

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/camcorders/camcorders/digital-camcorders/panasonic-hc-v380eb-k-camcorder-black-10142704-pdt.html

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/camcorders/camcorders/digital-camcorders/jvc-gz-r495dek-camcorder-orange-10181859-pdt.html

I know nothing about video cameras except my 30 quid phone takes better video than the Cannon.



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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 1192
    Loads of folks use a Sony HDR something or other....just google best camcorders for YouTube..


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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 2908
    I've been looking at the ones Zoom offer. 
    I need a camcorder for work but I also fancied something to record the band and Zoom seem pretty good for that. 
    Really nice review here with pros, cons, and how they might work or not work for vlogging.



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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 11692
    You might actually be better with a DSLR "stills" camera. Fantastic image quality and brilliant access to lenses. And most - even entry level ones - are good at video these days. 

    A large proportion of youtube bloggers use DSLRs (or mirrorless stills cameras) these days
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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 4070
    Definitely don't get a camcorder. They're... I don't even know why they exist.

    Really, you want a micro 4/3 sensor or aps-c. These bigger sensors will give much better image quality. If you're not needing amazing autofocus for video, you could definitely get by with an older model - they shoot excellent 1080p at 30fps, which is fine for most YouTube applications. 
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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 4070
    Panasonic lx100 used maybe? 
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    I cant push the budget out to a DSLR at the moment, The only choice I have really is the ones in my first post, I can get those on a buy now pay later (after I have paid for our holidays!) and I dont think my 9 year old would appreciated a DSLR the same way I would.
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  • skunkwerxskunkwerx Frets: 2255
    Most of my shits filmed on a Panasonic w850 (older model). 

    www.youtube.com/captainslaveman

    Except the last noisy boss buffer clip. 
    Might give you some reference. It was about £450odd when I bought it. My crap cheap editing software degrades the quality, then youtube does so even more when I upload. 

    When I was looking at what youtubers were using, they all seemed to have serious gear to get the high quality videos we're used to. Ie. A dslr, rode mic, lighting, a powerhouse of a pc or whatever... and knowledge in how to use it all, which I severely lack in..
    The only easy day, was yesterday...
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  • strumjoughlampsstrumjoughlamps Frets: 2084
    Will the camera be static? 
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    Will the camera be static? 
    Usually yes, but sometimes no.
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  • KeikoKeiko Frets: 174
    gopro?
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    I tried the Cannon moving around and its utter pants, jumpy, grainy , struggles to keep focus, its also pants on moving objects, like children playing.
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  • strumjoughlampsstrumjoughlamps Frets: 2084
    robgilmo said:
    Will the camera be static? 
    Usually yes, but sometimes no.
    Decent mobile phone, Tascam portable audio recorder, Led continuous lights and a clapperboard. 
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 6099
    Keiko said:
    gopro?
    This. A friend does semi-pro film making and uses Go Pros as well as his DSLR. Gets great results. 
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  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 3218
    edited June 20
    robgilmo said:
    My daughter wants to make you tube videos. I figured a you tube video wont need anything exotic to film it, I was wrong.

    I bought her this.
    https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/camcorders/camcorders/digital-camcorders/canon-legria-hf-r86-camcorder-black-10159649-pdt.html

    The video is very grainy and looks horrid! I have not tried it outdoors as she wont really be using it outdoors.

    So it has to go back!
    ...
    I know nothing about video cameras except my 30 quid phone takes better video than the Cannon.

    Sounds like the lighting was insufficient. Although not a great camera, given decent lighting, it should give better results than you describe. A lot of the skill in shooting video or film is about working with light. Using what ever lights you have to hand, try to create a soft even light, no hot spots, as a starting point.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    I was thinking lighting, our cottage isnt the brightest of places. It has a LUX value of 4 but I guess thats only Cannon trying to sell cameras. What kind of lights would be best? Incandescent, LED, energy saving? I know some kinds of artificial light can be bad, I have a bridge camera that makes everything look orange under artificial light.
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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 4507
    You can use a phone these days to film YT videos, those Handycams from the last century should stay there.  Who buys them?!

    Everything these days can shoot HD, every phone came out in the last couple of years can do 4k.

    Either get yourself a GoPro, or a DJI Action or DJI Pocket or use your phone.  

    If you want to get a bigger camera, then something like a Sony RX100V would be good, but you need a flip up screen if you are going to shoot vlogs.
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 2908
    edited June 20
    robgilmo said:
    I was thinking lighting, our cottage isnt the brightest of places. It has a LUX value of 4 but I guess thats only Cannon trying to sell cameras. What kind of lights would be best? Incandescent, LED, energy saving? I know some kinds of artificial light can be bad, I have a bridge camera that makes everything look orange under artificial light.
    I got a couple of these and they've made a massive difference.  I think it was someone here who recommended them. 
    They're good to go but I got a couple of longer power leads and just cos I've got mic stands knocking around I've stuck them onto mic stands which means they're good to go in seconds rather than have to faff about.

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  • RockerRocker Frets: 3250
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    Rocker said:
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    I have tried that with PC world before, they still try and sell you something that isnt right,  I dont know, perhaps I am expecting too much from cheap gear, or perhaps I am old fashioned and expect things to do the job that I expect them to do? It would be nice if they said in the description ''wont work in low light/indoors, wont work on moving objects, will wash out in bright sun light and wont work if you move around with the camera in your hand'', to be fair though I would have thought a video camera should be well capable of these things no matter how much it costs, wouldn't that be the basics of any camera?
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 1192
    The zoom looks good but sadly isn’t...


    Mac Mini i7, 2.3Ghz.
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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 4070
    robgilmo said:
    Rocker said:
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    I have tried that with PC world before, they still try and sell you something that isnt right,  I dont know, perhaps I am expecting too much from cheap gear, or perhaps I am old fashioned and expect things to do the job that I expect them to do? It would be nice if they said in the description ''wont work in low light/indoors, wont work on moving objects, will wash out in bright sun light and wont work if you move around with the camera in your hand'', to be fair though I would have thought a video camera should be well capable of these things no matter how much it costs, wouldn't that be the basics of any camera?

    Washing out I'm bright light is a side effect of too much range of exposure - a camera doesn't "see" the way we do. 

    Advanced tracking autofocus and seeing in the dark (which is really what you are describing - remember, cameras do not see the way we do so dark is relative) are the sort of things people pay a lot of money for. 

    A better solution would be to sit near a south facing window with a voile. Nice big soft box. That's your soft, even light taken care of. That will fix the grainy, noisy image and give a more polished look. 

    Tracking autofocus, you'll get decent results with a £3000 system. But it'll still pulse a bit. Pros use manual focus - there is nothing like having a human control the camera. 

    The main thing is always light - a crappy camera with great light will do much better than the greatest camera and bad light. Bad doesn't always mean low light either... 
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  • exocetexocet Frets: 748
    edited June 20
    boogieman said:
    Keiko said:
    gopro?
    This. A friend does semi-pro film making and uses Go Pros as well as his DSLR. Gets great results. 
    I have a Go Pro 5 and I have to say that in low light (standard pub ) conditions, it’s completely outgunned by my Samsung S8 phone when shooting 1080 / 30. The recorded audio is better on the phone too when shooting live music.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    Thanks for the input guys, I took it outside for a while, sun was just setting but it was good and bright, a little overcast, camera was grainy still, and it makes a clicking noise that transfers into the videos audio, I will try it tomorrow during the day and see if it is any better but to be honest so far its not looking good for this camera. Also,  it has a night time mode, thats going to be interesting!
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    robgilmo said:
    Rocker said:
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    I have tried that with PC world before, they still try and sell you something that isnt right,  I dont know, perhaps I am expecting too much from cheap gear, or perhaps I am old fashioned and expect things to do the job that I expect them to do? It would be nice if they said in the description ''wont work in low light/indoors, wont work on moving objects, will wash out in bright sun light and wont work if you move around with the camera in your hand'', to be fair though I would have thought a video camera should be well capable of these things no matter how much it costs, wouldn't that be the basics of any camera?

    Washing out I'm bright light is a side effect of too much range of exposure - a camera doesn't "see" the way we do. 

    Advanced tracking autofocus and seeing in the dark (which is really what you are describing - remember, cameras do not see the way we do so dark is relative) are the sort of things people pay a lot of money for. 

    A better solution would be to sit near a south facing window with a voile. Nice big soft box. That's your soft, even light taken care of. That will fix the grainy, noisy image and give a more polished look. 

    Tracking autofocus, you'll get decent results with a £3000 system. But it'll still pulse a bit. Pros use manual focus - there is nothing like having a human control the camera. 

    The main thing is always light - a crappy camera with great light will do much better than the greatest camera and bad light. Bad doesn't always mean low light either... 

    This has manual focus, its screen touch based, so responding to a moving object may be tricky!
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033



    So night time mode isnt too bad, a bit grainy and clicking in audio, is this why its also grainy in well lit conditions? Trying to achieve the best of both worlds but not quite getting either of them?
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  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 4070
    robgilmo said:
    robgilmo said:
    Rocker said:
    The OP really ought to go into a shop that sells cameras and such things and discuss his requirements with a staff member there.  Much the same advice that I would give for buying a guitar, hi-fi system, HT system, car etc. etc.
    I have tried that with PC world before, they still try and sell you something that isnt right,  I dont know, perhaps I am expecting too much from cheap gear, or perhaps I am old fashioned and expect things to do the job that I expect them to do? It would be nice if they said in the description ''wont work in low light/indoors, wont work on moving objects, will wash out in bright sun light and wont work if you move around with the camera in your hand'', to be fair though I would have thought a video camera should be well capable of these things no matter how much it costs, wouldn't that be the basics of any camera?

    Washing out I'm bright light is a side effect of too much range of exposure - a camera doesn't "see" the way we do. 

    Advanced tracking autofocus and seeing in the dark (which is really what you are describing - remember, cameras do not see the way we do so dark is relative) are the sort of things people pay a lot of money for. 

    A better solution would be to sit near a south facing window with a voile. Nice big soft box. That's your soft, even light taken care of. That will fix the grainy, noisy image and give a more polished look. 

    Tracking autofocus, you'll get decent results with a £3000 system. But it'll still pulse a bit. Pros use manual focus - there is nothing like having a human control the camera. 

    The main thing is always light - a crappy camera with great light will do much better than the greatest camera and bad light. Bad doesn't always mean low light either... 

    This has manual focus, its screen touch based, so responding to a moving object may be tricky!

    That's autofocus - you're just choosing a point. Manual focus is where you manually push or pull focus. Touch to focus is choosing a point, which the camera's autofocus will then attempt to latch onto. 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 3888
    If it's for a static setup (talking to camera type setup) then spend the money on lighting - will make the world if difference 
    "Congratulations on being officially the most right anyone has ever been about anything, ever." -- Noisepolluter knows the score
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  • strumjoughlampsstrumjoughlamps Frets: 2084
    you are way overthinking the camera element part of what you are trying to achieve.
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  • robgilmorobgilmo Frets: 2033
    you are way overthinking the camera element part of what you are trying to achieve.
    I totally understand that lighting and knowing what I am doing is important but I want to make sure I have a decent camera to begin with, 
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