Is all 'acoustic' guitar playing amplified now....

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RockerRocker Frets: 4947
Mrs Rocker and myself are just back from a holiday in Dingle, Co. Kerry.  A truly lovely and interesting place, were were there many times before now.  It has many attractions for visitors and the food and drink is good there.

Almost all the pubs have music every night.  The adverts show musicians, fiddles, accordions, pipes, and guitars, in full swing.  The reality is more often a couple of guys playing and singing nondescript folk or singalong songs.  Everything is amplified, guitar plugged in, most use those floor blocks with built in microphone to amplify the tapping of the foot etc.  I know that some of the pubs are large, and amplification is needed for the songs to be heard, but there is a sameness to the sound that ultimately fails to connect with the audience.  It looks like acoustic guitar playing but it does not sound exactly right.

And as for repertoire, there have to be better and more interesting songs than 'Molly Malone'.  In a Gaeltach area, as Dingle is, I expected a few songs as Gaeilge.  But none were sung.

But to get back to my first point, it seems that all instruments including acoustic ones, need to be amplified.    Which is a pity as an acoustic guitar sounds great as it is.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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Comments

  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2394
    Quite a few folk clubs are still strictly unamplified, I can think of three or four in our area. I much prefer it.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    "Unplugged" means plugged into a big PA system nowadays. Just as long as it doesn't look like an electric guitar...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    But surely unless you're strumming really loudly you'd never be heard? 
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    But surely unless you're strumming really loudly you'd never be heard? 
    Depends on the bar. If it's a small place with no TV, jukebox, games machines - basically like bars used to be until about forty years ago - then it's fine. You're not going to get delicate lead lines to be heard, but it's enough for chord work to accompany a singer (or yourself).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • thecolourboxthecolourbox Frets: 9654
    Blimey that must have been a nightmare at times. Whenever I've tried that, as I'm a fairly quiet singer and don't like strumming chords so play a very basic finger style, I can barely hear myself let alone anybody else hearing it!
    Please note my communication is not very good, so please be patient with me
    soundcloud.com/thecolourbox-1
    youtube.com/@TheColourboxMusic
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Blimey that must have been a nightmare at times. Whenever I've tried that, as I'm a fairly quiet singer and don't like strumming chords so play a very basic finger style, I can barely hear myself let alone anybody else hearing it!
    No, that's really not going to work without some sort of amplification even somewhere quiet.

    A couple of mics and a small amp should be enough though. It's the "unplugged" meaning *plugged in* thing that grates with me.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    Ms Blobb is a folk singer and does the circuit of pubs / festivals. She plays a small parlour type acoustic which sounds lovely but is quiet. her voice is powerful though so when she starts up it grabs most peoples attention straight away. We do take along a small 5w amp if we think it's going to a bit raucous, usually stick it under her chair where no one can see it. This gives the guitar a bit more volume without taking away too much of the acoustic sound.  It's the bl**dy squeezebox crowd that do our nut. When they turn up it's time to clear out....
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • BahHumbugBahHumbug Frets: 349
    It just depends on the context.  I know of plenty of folk clubs and quieter open mics around here where people are there to take part and listen to each other.  They are all completely unplugged, apart from the occasional electronic keyboard or electric bass.  It works fine.
    I’ve been to one local open mic that was ‘plugged’ and it was mainly lads drunkenly thrashing out Oasis tunes on tortured acoustics.  Probably fun if you were pissed.
    If I’ve ever done a solo acoustic gig I’ve almost always used amplification.  In a pub type environment a PA might be the only thing that indicates a ‘stage’ and it saves you from ending up as the strange bloke inaudibly mumbling in the corner!
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  • zepp76zepp76 Frets: 2534
    Rocker said:
    Mrs Rocker and myself are just back from a holiday in Dingle, Co. Kerry.  A truly lovely and interesting place, were were there many times before now.  It has many attractions for visitors and the food and drink is good there.

    Almost all the pubs have music every night.  The adverts show musicians, fiddles, accordions, pipes, and guitars, in full swing.  The reality is more often a couple of guys playing and singing nondescript folk or singalong songs.  Everything is amplified, guitar plugged in, most use those floor blocks with built in microphone to amplify the tapping of the foot etc.  I know that some of the pubs are large, and amplification is needed for the songs to be heard, but there is a sameness to the sound that ultimately fails to connect with the audience.  It looks like acoustic guitar playing but it does not sound exactly right.

    And as for repertoire, there have to be better and more interesting songs than 'Molly Malone'.  In a Gaeltach area, as Dingle is, I expected a few songs as Gaeilge.  But none were sung.

    But to get back to my first point, it seems that all instruments including acoustic ones, need to be amplified.    Which is a pity as an acoustic guitar sounds great as it is.
    If you are ever in Ireland when Clifden in Connemara Co. Galway have their traditional folk music festival I can thoroughly recommend it. I had a long weekend there before ending up in Dingle, it was fantastic. All the pubs had different gigs going on and most places were open until 03:00a.m or more! I found the pub "Lowries" (spelling?) best it was a nice small old pub where nothing was amplified but the music rang out beautifully. Then they had a large trailer in the main square where the bigger bands played. I cannot recommend it enough, I had a great time (this was back when I used to drink alcohol and got mullered every night!). 
    Tomorrow will be a good day.
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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    "Proper" folk sessions are out there, and thriving in many places.  These are the ones where anyone can turn up and join in, and if there's any payment at all, it'll be in beer to keep the music flowing.  Very different setup from your typical paid duo gig, which sounds like what the OP was coming across.

    In those sessions, the guitars are usually all about driving the rhythm and accompanying the occasional song.  Most of the tunes are carried by fiddles, whistles, tenor banjo and the like.

    I've played at many of these, and in terms of guitar, your main aim is to get as much sound out of the bottom few frets as humanly possible, with lots of alternating bass parts and choppy chords to cut through.  Attempting a tasty lead break will just make you look daft.  It's all about the way it blends with the other instruments, but with good players it can totally be loud enough as an ensemble, even in a rowdy pub.
    Some of the gear, some idea

    Trading feedback here
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    Trude said:
    in terms of guitar, your main aim is to get as much sound out of the bottom few frets as humanly possible,
    Djent?
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • Creed_ClicksCreed_Clicks Frets: 1385
    Would bluegrass type bands still play around the one mic or would they all be plugged into the PA these days via an onboard pickup?
    I went to see Jeff Tweedy a while back, and he played an acoustic with a mic in front of it, so stood near/further from the mic when he wanted to get more volume on the guitar.
    In somewhere like Dingle where it's mainly tourists with a few pints on board, I'd imagine it's next to impossible to play an unplugged sessions and expect people to listen.... ?
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  • RockerRocker Frets: 4947
    I understand that to be heard, acoustic guitars need to be plugged in but that then needs vocals and other instruments to be amplified.  This then makes everyone sound more or less the same - any unique character of an instrument gets lost in the mix.  In a large venue, there might be a sound guy whose job it is to get that detail right but most two guy bands don't have that luxury.

    Another disappointing discovery in the pubs of Dingle is the emphasis on sleaze.  If it is possible to have a 'dirty' version of a song, that is what is sung.  This might be fine if you are pissed but is distasteful if you are not.  Unsurprisingly in Dingle, the audiences were mostly tourists from USA, GB, the Orient and EU with a number of Irish thrown in.  I left Dingle disappointed at not hearing any real traditional music or singing and no song in Irish even though Dingle is in the Gaeltach where Irish is one of the spoken languages.  The fact that few of the audience would know the song can be got around by explaining what the song is about before it is sung.  Tourists go home thinking that the typical Irish ballad sessions includes 'dirty' versions of songs like Seven Drunken Nights.  
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

    Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14324
    Rocker said:
    it seems that all instruments including acoustic ones, need to be amplified. 
    IMO, the real pity is that, anyone who rolls up to a music evening with a purely acoustic instrument will be sidelined because the instrument can not be plugged in.

    Even if casual attendees have instruments with built-in transducer systems, there may not be enough input sockets for all willing participants to plug into simultaneously. 

    Some of the original spirit of community music making has been lost along the way.
    Be seeing you.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    I was once at a showcase session with my new Taylor electro-acoustic, which I’d added an extra pickup to and generally tweaked, and felt very self-satisfied as to how much better than everyone else’s Takamine, Yamaha etc electros it sounded... until at the very end a girl turned up with a battered old Seagull acoustic with no pickup, so the soundman stuck a spare SM58 in front of it. Instantly every electro in the room, mine included, sounded equally shit.

    :)

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • TrudeTrude Frets: 914
    ICBM said:
    I was once at a showcase session with my new Taylor electro-acoustic, which I’d added an extra pickup to and generally tweaked, and felt very self-satisfied as to how much better than everyone else’s Takamine, Yamaha etc electros it sounded... until at the very end a girl turned up with a battered old Seagull acoustic with no pickup, so the soundman stuck a spare SM58 in front of it. Instantly every electro in the room, mine included, sounded equally shit.

    :)
    I concur with this - the best acoustic sound I ever had coming back through the monitors was my old Taylor GS6 with an SM57 in front of it!
    Some of the gear, some idea

    Trading feedback here
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  • McSwaggertyMcSwaggerty Frets: 657
    Trude said:
    ICBM said:
    I was once at a showcase session with my new Taylor electro-acoustic, which I’d added an extra pickup to and generally tweaked, and felt very self-satisfied as to how much better than everyone else’s Takamine, Yamaha etc electros it sounded... until at the very end a girl turned up with a battered old Seagull acoustic with no pickup, so the soundman stuck a spare SM58 in front of it. Instantly every electro in the room, mine included, sounded equally shit.

    :)
    I concur with this - the best acoustic sound I ever had coming back through the monitors was my old Taylor GS6 with an SM57 in front of it!
    Yep, agree 100%....all day, every day....
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