How have Marshall cabs changed over the years?

WiresDreamDisasters

How have Marshall cabs changed? I've got a JCM900 cab with T75's, and I was listening to clips of the Marshall 1960AV and 1960BV and they sound markedly different to my cab. My cab is at the practice room so can't 100% confirm it yet, but I remember it sounding odd. This got my curiosity goin'

ICBM

The 'V' cabs have Vintage 30s - so much more midrange and punch. G12T-75s sound a bit hollow and buzzy.

WiresDreamDisasters

Yeah was just looking at the specs. All four cabs - 1960A, 1960B, 1960AV, 1960BV - are the same dimensions and same materials. Looks to just be the speaker difference.

Meaning I could probably slap some v30's in mine and call it a day?

ICBM

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Yeah was just looking at the specs. All four cabs - 1960A, 1960B, 1960AV, 1960BV - are the same dimensions and same materials. Looks to just be the speaker difference.

Meaning I could probably slap some v30's in mine and call it a day?

If you prefer the sound of them, yes.

What do do first is try two, in a 'x' pattern (top one side, bottom the other) - that's what Bogner's 'Uberschall' cab has, and is thought to be one of the best speaker combinations for heavier tones. OK the Marshall cab isn't as heavily-built as the Bogner so it won't sound exactly the same, but it will be closer than what you have now. If that fails, buy another two V30s.

WiresDreamDisasters

Yeah I don't really like the T75's. The Marshall cab lives at the practice room right now and has to compete with a Mesa Recto cab, and it kinda doesn't! lol.

My Egnater is nicer than my Marshall. Think a speaker change might be in order.

MichaelAT

The A (angled) and B (straight) sound different (in the room) even with the same speakers. Something you also have to factor in.

ICBM

MichaelAT said:

The A (angled) and B (straight) sound different (in the room) even with the same speakers. Something you also have to factor in.

Yes, that's very true - the straight cab has a slightly larger internal volume, and will have different resonant frequencies. Most people who like heavier tones prefer the straight ones. It's a smaller difference than the speakers though.

webrthomson

I've got a Marshall 1960AV thats V30 / T75 cross pattern loaded - it sound epic, heavy as hell, more than hangs with my Diezel and Boogie cabs!

ICBM

webrthomson said:

I've got a Marshall 1960AV thats V30 / T75 cross pattern loaded - it sound epic, heavy as hell, more than hangs with my Diezel and Boogie cabs!

It's a combination that works really well because each speaker is quite different-sounding and fills out the sound in its own way. Before I heard it, I wondered if it would be the worst of both worlds because the V30 is more efficient so all you'd hear from the 75 is the buzzy top-end, but it isn't like that at all - the 75 adds the deep bottom-end resonance that the V30 lacks and seems to moderate the mid peak as well, without taking away the punch. Counterintuitive, but it's one of the best combinations.

WiresDreamDisasters

I do prefer straight cabs to play through, but angled cabs work slightly better on stage for monitoring yourself.

Both my cabs are angled. I do fancy a new cab

JMP220478

whats the cab made of  ?  Ive seen some later series Marshalls with mdf backs - some of the lower price models might even be entirely mdf - I believe marine ply / marine birch ply or even finest Void-free, Marine Grade Baltic Birch ( Mesa description) is thought to be best for rock sounds - appropriate worn in speakers to taste ..

ICBM

JMP220478 said:

whats the cab made of  ?  Ive seen some later series Marshalls with mdf backs - some of the lower price models might even be entirely mdf - I believe marine ply / marine birch ply or even finest Void-free, Marine Grade Baltic Birch ( Mesa description) is thought to be best for rock sounds - appropriate worn in speakers to taste ..

All full-size 4x12"s, and all other cabs until the end of the JCM800 series, are all-ply until 1971, and then ply with a particle-board back - I don't think they ever used MDF in them, even for the backs.

The smaller cabs are almost all MDF from about the start of the JCM900 series, although the 1936 2x12" has fairly recently returned to being ply (not sure about the back). Some early 900s are ply.

webrthomson

ICBM said:

webrthomson said:

I've got a Marshall 1960AV thats V30 / T75 cross pattern loaded - it sound epic, heavy as hell, more than hangs with my Diezel and Boogie cabs!

It's a combination that works really well because each speaker is quite different-sounding and fills out the sound in its own way. Before I heard it, I wondered if it would be the worst of both worlds because the V30 is more efficient so all you'd hear from the 75 is the buzzy top-end, but it isn't like that at all - the 75 adds the deep bottom-end resonance that the V30 lacks and seems to moderate the mid peak as well, without taking away the punch. Counterintuitive, but it's one of the best combinations.

Yeah I was dubious as well but it really is like the V30 and T75’s each cancel out the bad aspects of each other. Works well for clean, but under gain it’s very, very good indeed

GoldenEraGuitars

I’m not sure about the speakers... I’d have to check but a good friend of mine bought a Marshall 1960 AV (I think) and everything from the construction to the sound was mediocre at best. Not a patch on the late 70s 4x12 we have here 

ICBM

GoldenEraGuitars said:

I’m not sure about the speakers... I’d have to check but a good friend of mine bought a Marshall 1960 AV (I think) and everything from the construction to the sound was mediocre at best. Not a patch on the late 70s 4x12 we have here 

Yes, it’s true that they just don’t seem as well made, even though in theory the construction is the same. Everything from the quality of the ply to the glue for the vinyl seems slightly worse, and the whole thing adds up to a cab that just doesn't sound quite as good, even with the same speakers.

The quality of the wiring and the impedance switching PCB is a bit questionable too - I've rewired quite a few with all-soldered connections and standard jacks in parallel, largely for safety reasons since the switching going faulty is quite common and can be a cause of blown amp transformers, and they always seem to sound better afterwards as well... which may or may not be confirmation bias .

But there may be a genuine reason - the switching system puts the speakers in series-parallel in 16-ohm mode, because each pair of speakers is wired in parallel for 8 ohms. In vintage cabs and as I would rewire one, they're parallel-series with each pair of speakers in series. There is a real difference, caused by the change in damping factor.

zepp76

@ICBM  how can you tell the age of a cab please? I have a 1960ax 4x12 with G12M-25 greenbacks but there doesn't seem to be anything on the cab to date it. Any advice would be much appreciated, thank you.

ICBM

zepp76 said:

@ICBM  how can you tell the age of a cab please? I have a 1960ax 4x12 with G12M-25 greenbacks but there doesn't seem to be anything on the cab to date it. Any advice would be much appreciated, thank you.

If it doesn't say JCM900 on the front then it's post-1997. The serial number sticker should have the date, but if that's missing then you'll need to go by the codes on the speakers.

Probably not worth bothering too much since it's a 'modern' cab even if it's twenty years old, and the year has no bearing on value or sound really.

zepp76

ICBM said:

zepp76 said:

@ICBM  how can you tell the age of a cab please? I have a 1960ax 4x12 with G12M-25 greenbacks but there doesn't seem to be anything on the cab to date it. Any advice would be much appreciated, thank you.

If it doesn't say JCM900 on the front then it's post-1997. The serial number sticker should have the date, but if that's missing then you'll need to go by the codes on the speakers.

Probably not worth bothering too much since it's a 'modern' cab even if it's twenty years old, and the year has no bearing on value or sound really.

Ok thank you, I was just intrigued as to how old it is but there's no importance to it. It sounds phenomenal with my JTM45 it's a great mix.

Reverend

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I do prefer straight cabs to play through, but angled cabs work slightly better on stage for monitoring yourself.

Both my cabs are angled. I do fancy a new cab

I have a 1960tv which has greenbacks in. It is angled but is a few inches taller so you have more of the internal volume. 

ICBM

Reverend said:

I have a 1960tv which has greenbacks in. It is angled but is a few inches taller so you have more of the internal volume. 

Those are really nice-sounding cabs. They're a bit of an oddity though, since the original tall cabs were straight - the angle cabs never were taller, apart from a very rare one that's the same size as an 8x10" and with offset speakers. Why, who knows... but back in those days, bigger was better!

cosmiccarrot

zepp76 said:

@ICBM  how can you tell the age of a cab please? I have a 1960ax 4x12 with G12M-25 greenbacks but there doesn't seem to be anything on the cab to date it. Any advice would be much appreciated, thank you.

If it has a barcode on the back plate a lot of times the date is in the numbers. If not you'd have to take the back off and get the black stamp numbers and letters on the metal frame or if it's newer speaker, the code number for dating is on a sticker on the side of the plastic magnet cover.

As a general rule imo I think anyone has bought used cab should take the back off, they might not know a replaced speaker by a previous owner or worse all replaced with something else!