Gibson R8 or Harley Benton with Pickup Upgrades?

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Simon_MSimon_M Frets: 542
This is not a piss take. Honest. 

So over the other side of the pub someone suggested that a Gibson R8 isn’t much ‘better’ (better being subjective of course) than a Harley Benton LP style with a pickup upgrade. 

Now, there must be SOME truth in that. It’s certainly well known that if you pay more for a guitar doesn’t necessarily mean you get more. But this comparison interests me. 

A Gibson R8 is anywhere between £2500 and £4500 depending on where and when you bought it. A Harley Benton is £250-350. That’s quite an ocean between them.

A really good set of pickups must be £150-200 (just guessing, I don’t actually know) so let’s call the HB £500ish upgraded if you pay a bloke to do the work for you.

So what next? What do you do to the HB to get it closer to the R8?

A good set up surely but maybe the R8 would need that too?

Fret dress? New tuners? New nut? Bridge? Would any of these actually be worth bothering?

At what point does it just become the name on the headstock and everything else is 99% equivalent?


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  • Simon_MSimon_M Frets: 542
    And I suppose there’s a few elements to this:

    Some say the sound is all that’s important. I’m pretty confident a HB can sound every bit as good/the same as an R8 with a pickup change and a set up. 

    Some say the look is important. I suppose this covers headstock names and shapes so you do ultimately end up paying something to have Gibson on the guitar. 

    Some people say Mojo is important. I literally don’t know what that is but considering both an R8 and an HB we built in guitar factories very recently, albeit on other sides of the world, I wonder how much Mojo there can be?
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  • johnljohnl Frets: 2011
    edited July 2019
    Feel, action, intonation, neck angle, weight? All of those are related to a degree and whilst a setup will help with some it won't get you all the way there. Certainly one of the positives of HB is that they usually come pretty well set up out of the box which helps. If I were to lend you both my HB and my R8 and said you could keep one of them I'm pretty sure I know which one I'd get back :)
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  • Simon_MSimon_M Frets: 542
    Disclaimer: I neither own an R8 or a Harley Benton. I don’t like Les Pauls particularly so I have no bias or preference.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    edited July 2019
    Simon_M said:


    Fret dress? New tuners? New nut? Bridge? Would any of these actually be worth bothering?

    The human labour costs are the first to be cut on a budget guitar - anything that involves hand/eye co-ordination, basically.  I'd say the two of the four on your list would be worthwhile, frets and nut. 

    The bridge - depends if the unit fitted to the Harley Benton guitar is that bad.  I'd imagine it'd be OK.  Still, the bridge could be one of the easier upgrades, depending on the post widths (centres between the two) and individual diameters fitted to the HB guitar. 

    Same for the tuners - if you could get replacements in the headstock with no drilling then you might notice an improvement depending on the quality of the originals.  Given it's possible to get decent tuners for not very much, they might be fine.
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 12255
    I have a harley benton 335 with upgraded tuners to gibson tuners and pickups to seymour duncan vintage blues, I also dulled the ridiculously shiny paint gloss finish and changed the pickguard and knobs to look more like an old 335.

    It sounds great, I've played a 60's 335 which was better but not light years better by any stretch.  The binding has a couple of small errors in but it feels nice and stays in tune.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    Simon_M said:
    someone suggested that a Gibson R8 isn’t much ‘better’ (better being subjective of course) than a Harley Benton LP style with a pickup upgrade.
    The law of diminishing returns certainly applies.

    In the hands of some guitar owners, any qualitative difference between brands G and HB might not show.

    Through a cruddy amplifier, both brands would be reduced to the same level.

    Detailed hand work such as fret finishing and fingerboard edge tumbling is part of what makes an expensive guitar more pleasurable to play. It is possible to perform these tasks on a budget guitar.

    Pickups are no guarantee of obtaining a specific tonal outcome. They may suit one guitar and not the next. (Case in point, I have a pair of Korean-made PRS S2 #7 humbuckers that sound glorious in a  cheap Tokai SG.)
    Be seeing you.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 4088
    edited July 2019
    ^^ and there you have it.  Edit - I was pointing at @munckee 's post, but was too slow :)

    There are probably two truisms at this point:

    1) The Harley Benton is going to be a better guitar than it has any right to be at that price point, that's just how good modern manufacturing is
    2) The R8, whilst no doubt a spectacularly nice guitar, probably has value (and therefore cost) added to it by the name on the peghead and the heritage that implies.

    I'd happily have both in the house, I just like guitars

    I shied from Les Pauls for years until I found one I liked and it made me realise just why the enormous breadth of music (from jazz to metal) has been recorded with them down the years.  A lot more versatile than I ever gave them credit for.
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  • Fifty9Fifty9 Frets: 491
    I think if you’re not trolling but are genuinely asking the question seriously you best stick with the Harley Benton..

    I have an old Korean Maison LP copy that since it was upgraded plays nicely and sounds as close to my R8 as required. You could say it’s just a different slant on the classic LP tone that’s valid and good/rocking in its own right and it’s not as if all Gibson’s sound the same anyway.

    But the R8 is a finer instrument across every element without doubt - as well as being orthentik... - which is worth that 90% premium to many and not worth it to many others. 
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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    Fifty9 said:

    But the R8 is a finer instrument across every element without doubt - as well as being orthentik... - which is worth that 90% premium to many and not worth it to many others. 
    This, for me. 

    If you can't tell the difference, or don't care, then revel in the saved money and be happy. 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • poopotpoopot Frets: 9098
    No... your Harley Benton les Paul will never feel the same to play as a proper vintage Gibson les Paul...

    but...

    Anything Gibson have made since the 60’s will also not feel like a proper vintage les Paul... r8’s r9’s, true historics etc etc etc

    and here’s why!

    on the left, the fret scale used by gibson since the early 60’s on the right the original vintage fret scale they used on all their guitars prior to the change!... a bit of a difference no?



     
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  • Simon_MSimon_M Frets: 542
    Fifty9 said:
    I think if you’re not trolling but are genuinely asking the question seriously you best stick with the Harley Benton..
    Of course I’m not trolling. That’s literally the first line of the OP. 

    I have no interest in buying either an R8 or a Harley Benton. I don’t like Les Pauls.

    However, there’s clearly many people who
    have differing opinions on this and it’s interesting to read them. 

    Maybe it would be different if it was a PRS SE vs whatever their expensive USA model is called? Or a top of the range Epiphone and a Gibson Custom Shop. 
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  • Simon_MSimon_M Frets: 542
    That poopot said:
    No... your Harley Benton les Paul will never feel the same to play as a proper vintage Gibson les Paul...

    but...

    Anything Gibson have made since the 60’s will also not feel like a proper vintage les Paul... r8’s r9’s, true historics etc etc etc

    and here’s why!

    on the left, the fret scale used by gibson since the early 60’s on the right the original vintage fret scale they used on all their guitars prior to the change!... a bit of a difference no?



     
    The old scale looks much better. I have small hands. :)
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  • darthed1981darthed1981 Frets: 11673
    Is there a division between those of us who dived into the R8 feeding-frenzy last year and those of us who stood back and thought "why is everyone taking the little medals off their rusty orange guitars then weighing them...?" ;)

    I've played one of the R8s, they really are lovely, but I don't think I'd ever pay that kind of money for a guitar.

    HB make loads of fun looking guitars, at prices where I'd be happier taking a bath, though ironically seeing I'm partially responsible for this thread, my main LP like guitar is a Gibson, albeit the cheapest one, and I don't own an HB.
    We have to be so very careful, what we believe in...
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  • teradaterada Frets: 5113
    Well ones authentic and ones not. So easy answer... right mark?





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  • tony99tony99 Frets: 7076
    munckee said:
    I have a harley benton 335 with upgraded tuners to gibson tuners and pickups to seymour duncan vintage blues, I also dulled the ridiculously shiny paint gloss finish and changed the pickguard and knobs to look more like an old 335.

    It sounds great, I've played a 60's 335 which was better but not light years better by any stretch.  The binding has a couple of small errors in but it feels nice and stays in tune.
    What method did you use for dulling the finish?
    Bollocks you don't know Bono !!
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 12255
    tony99 said:
    munckee said:
    I have a harley benton 335 with upgraded tuners to gibson tuners and pickups to seymour duncan vintage blues, I also dulled the ridiculously shiny paint gloss finish and changed the pickguard and knobs to look more like an old 335.

    It sounds great, I've played a 60's 335 which was better but not light years better by any stretch.  The binding has a couple of small errors in but it feels nice and stays in tune.
    What method did you use for dulling the finish?
    The one from the les Paul forum where you use light Brillo pads and then buff back up to a duller shine. I didn't do the middle step of using a scratch restorer. 

    I wouldnt do it to an expensive guitar but looked better than its original plasticky shine. 
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  • Simon_M said:
     I’m pretty confident a HB can sound every bit as good/the same as an R8 with a pickup change and a set up. 

    Well, (on post #2) you answered your own question. That's that sorted then!
    I sometimes think, therefore I am intermittent
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  • rossirossi Frets: 1699
    I doubt any audience will know...so just play .
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    I feel sure if you swapped the neck and body on a Harley Benton for a Gibson neck and body, you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between it and a genuine Gibson.
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  • SassafrasSassafras Frets: 30273
    You also have to remember that Gibson have got 300 years of tradition behind them and have perfected the design over that time apart from when they bring out an even more historically correct model each year.
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