When does a guitarist become a musician?

Rocker

A question spawned by the guy playing Crossroads, on the recent @RandallFlagg thread, when does a guitarist become a musician?  Or does he ever?  Interested in your thoughts on this.....

Bridgehouse

When what they are playing is more important that what they are playing it on..

mart

When they switch to playing bass.

thecolourbox

mart said:

When they switch to playing bass.

Ha yeah I was going to say when they learn a musical instrument

slacker

I had a recent conversation with a singer who has to rely on a guitarist or two for open mic etc. I suggested he get a guitar. He said he was too old to learn how to play a guitar. I texted him g c d a e and a capo and told him that 5 chords was operating a guitar so he could sing.

IMHO being a musician is composing your own music, playing arranging and interpreting others music and being able to communicate with other musicians and the audience. 

VimFuego

when you can use your instrument or voice to express what you want to say. Doesn't need to be any more complex than that. 

Danny1969

To me a musician is someone who understands music. I know a lot of guitarist and a lot of musicians ... it ain't the same thing. 

As an example, let's consider someone who can build a guitar pedal from an online Veroboard layout. They are capable of following the layout and producing a working pedal but that doesn't make them an electronics engineer. They can produce a working product without knowing any of the underlying principles of electronics. This is very much like someone learning a song via online tab. They can do it but they don't understand any of the principles of why they are playing those notes and most of the time don't even know what key they are in. 

A musician is someone who works on his instrument and has a solid understanding of musical principles and is capable of communicating with other musicians in the language of music. I wouldn't go as far as to say you need to read music,  as things have changed over the last 100 years and even the best sight reader can't read music in the dark of a modern stage. But to be called a Musician you need to understand how music works.

None of the above is meant to distract from the fact that some of the best songwriters in the world didn't have much knowledge of music theory. People like Lennon, Mc'cartney, Noel Gallagher wrote superb songs just by instinct and a good ear for melody. In fact oddly enough the best songwriters I came across working in a recording studio were all not knowledgeable about music theory .... go figure  

flying_pie

A guitarist becomes a musician when they're unemployed 

axisus

It's when they come out of the chrysalis 

JezWynd

Danny1969 said:

A musician is someone who works on his instrument and has a solid understanding of musical principles and is capable of communicating with other musicians in the language of music. I wouldn't go as far as to say you need to read music,  as things have changed over the last 100 years and even the best sight reader can't read music in the dark of a modern stage. But to be called a Musician you need to understand how music works.

This is the right answer but I'd go a step further and say that a professional musician should also be able to sight read. You might not be able to read on stage in the dark but the ability to scan a score and immediately know what the composer/arranger wants despite the musician knowing little about the style beforehand must be essential if you want to get a variety of work. Perhaps that's the difference between being a musician and being a professional musician.

brooom

probably happens around the same time that they forget they are guitarists.

Auxend

I think for me it's like asking when a catcher becomes a baseball player...for me, it's when "musing" becomes about the role you play to serve the song more than the actual talents in your chosen position - maybe it's as simple as when you learn what not to play?

LastMantra

When they start making music. 

Winny_Pooh

When Gringopig decides so

PolarityMan

The inverse of a drummer

PolarityMan

Danny1969 said:

To me a musician is someone who understands music. I know a lot of guitarist and a lot of musicians ... it ain't the same thing. 

As an example, let's consider someone who can build a guitar pedal from an online Veroboard layout. They are capable of following the layout and producing a working pedal but that doesn't make them an electronics engineer. They can produce a working product without knowing any of the underlying principles of electronics. This is very much like someone learning a song via online tab. They can do it but they don't understand any of the principles of why they are playing those notes and most of the time don't even know what key they are in. 

A musician is someone who works on his instrument and has a solid understanding of musical principles and is capable of communicating with other musicians in the language of music. I wouldn't go as far as to say you need to read music,  as things have changed over the last 100 years and even the best sight reader can't read music in the dark of a modern stage. But to be called a Musician you need to understand how music works.

None of the above is meant to distract from the fact that some of the best songwriters in the world didn't have much knowledge of music theory. People like Lennon, Mc'cartney, Noel Gallagher wrote superb songs just by instinct and a good ear for melody. In fact oddly enough the best songwriters I came across working in a recording studio were all not knowledgeable about music theory .... go figure  

I dont buy this at all. Indian music is an entirely aural tradition but would you claim they are not musicians. By your own admission some of the most popular musicians of the last 50 years would not fit your definition. Neither would the majority of electronic based music artists.

A musician is someone who creates music..that's it.

camf

It's interesting nobody has mentioned any relationship with an audience.

Is an actor really an actor if they've never played in front of an audience and looked to elicit some kind of emotional response? Is an author an author if they've never let anyone read their work and looked to elicit some kind of emotional response? Is a guitar player someone who plays guitar but a musician is someone of performs music to an audience and looks to elicit some kind of emotional response?

I don't know. I'm just wondering.    

robinbowes

PolarityMan said:

A musician is someone who creates music..that's it.

This.

However, not all musicians are equal, ie. some are better than others.

R.

VimFuego

camf said:

It's interesting nobody has mentioned any relationship with an audience.

Is an actor really an actor if they've never played in front of an audience and looked to elicit some kind of emotional response? Is an author an author if they've never let anyone read their work and looked to elicit some kind of emotional response? Is a guitar player someone who plays guitar but a musician is someone of performs music to an audience and looks to elicit some kind of emotional response?

I don't know. I'm just wondering.    

I recall the tale of a writer called John Kennedy Toole who wrote A Confederacy of Dunces. He couldn't get anyone to publish his novel and he committed suicide aged 31. After his death, his mother got his novel published to both public and critical acclaim. During his life no one read his stuff, but he was still a writer. The act of expressing something using your chosen media is what makes you an artist, the audience is just what helps pay the bills. 

robinbowes

VimFuego said:

The act of expressing something using your chosen media is what makes you an artist, the audience is just what helps pay the bills. 

+1.

Getting paid for it is what makes you a professional.

R.

camf

Yes, but didn't John Kennedy Toole seek out an audience for his work? He tried to find publishers, so I'd guess he was writing to be read. It's a tragedy that he didn't live to see how much people enjoyed his work.