Are eminence speakers really much louder than celestion?

newi123newi123 Frets: 850
Had a eminence wizard in a carr amp, and currently a rajun cajun in a princeton. Liked both alot, and the little one has made the princeton significantly more giggable.

Also have a g12h in a 5e3, but it could do with a bit more volume.

The wizard is rated at 103db the celestion at 100db I believe, which would make the eminence significantly louder - is that really the case, or are the ratings optimistic or conservative respectively?
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Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Optimistic and conservative respectively in my experience. Eminences are no louder than equivalent Celestions, and possibly even a little quieter in perceived volume.

    A lot of it is down to frequency response - which varies a lot, even between similar speakers - and the way manufacturers average it out... there's no hard and fast rule.

    For example a G12H-30 and a V30 are both rated at 100dB... but the V30 is noticeably louder, especially in a band mix, because it has a very prominent upper-mid peak where the ear is most sensitive - and a rougher tone with more harmonics, which always sounds louder than a cleaner one even at the same volume.


    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • newi123newi123 Frets: 850
    Ok thanks @ICBM ;

    What would you put in the 5e3? Blues seem popular - how does their response sit in perceived volume? This is for gigs, so its all about poking through in a trio setting!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    newi123 said:

    What would you put in the 5e3? Blues seem popular - how does their response sit in perceived volume? This is for gigs, so its all about poking through in a trio setting!
    Very loud - probably about the loudest speaker that doesn't sound too modern for that sort of amp.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • newi123newi123 Frets: 850
    Thanks, as always, for the advice!
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    ICBM said:
    newi123 said:

    What would you put in the 5e3? Blues seem popular - how does their response sit in perceived volume? This is for gigs, so its all about poking through in a trio setting!
    Very loud - probably about the loudest speaker that doesn't sound too modern for that sort of amp.
    The Blue will also sound great.  Probably suits a 5E3 better than what you have in there.
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  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7744
    A Blue in a 5E3 is glorious. Nothing sounds better. 

    I had 3 5E3’s at one point. A Fender Custom shop one with stock Jenson speaker, Abbott 5E3 with Scumback Scumnico, and Vyse 5E3 with Celestion blue. 

    Thr Vyse blew them all away, the Fender being the weakest performer.  That Vyse with the Blue is a giant killer, adore it. 
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    There are "Lies, damned lies and sensitivity speccs"!! Do you know the test regime?  Commonly it is SPL A at 1mtr for 1W of pink noise but sometimes white noise is used even 1kHz sine tone. Then, what't a watt? 2.83V into 8 Ohms? But speakers vary in their absolute impedance so the ACTUAL power dissipated is not accurately known. Then there are a ***tload of tolerances...

    I have read before that it is very hard tp make a direct radiator speaker with a sensitivity much above 100dB/W/mtr?

    Dave.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    ecc83 said:

    I have read before that it is very hard tp make a direct radiator speaker with a sensitivity much above 100dB/W/mtr?
    The highest I know of are the original Celestion Century, the Electro-Voice EVM-12L and the Celestion Sidewider, all of which are about 101-102dB - that seems to be about the limit. The EV only claims 100dB I think, but it's the loudest of the lot in practice.

    You wouldn't want an EV in a 5E3 though I don't think... it not only wouldn't sound right, it would not far off literally double the weight of the amp!

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    TheMarlin said:
    A Blue in a 5E3 is glorious. Nothing sounds better. 

    I had 3 5E3’s at one point. A Fender Custom shop one with stock Jenson speaker, Abbott 5E3 with Scumback Scumnico, and Vyse 5E3 with Celestion blue. 

    Thr Vyse blew them all away, the Fender being the weakest performer.  That Vyse with the Blue is a giant killer, adore it. 
    Can confirm. My home-build 5e3 sounds amazing with a Blue. It's just too loud to use in an apartment, so I've swapped that for a Jensen P12R which does actually sound quite similar (at least being within the alnico ballpark) and chunk less loud. 

    I'm thinking of trying the Blue in my Badcat as that has a really good master volume, so loudness shouldn't be an issue, and it should on paper sound brilliant.
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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