Arpeggios - learn by chord type or by neck positions?

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Hey guys,

as I'm trying to delve into arpeggios, I'm met with the (probably normal) feeling of "geeee that's a lot of information to internalise". Even at 34, my brain isn't quite what it once was re: learning I'm afraid...

So I'm trying to make sense of what I'm looking at, and prioritise. If you were in a similar position, would you:

- focus on one chord type at a time (say Major 7), and practice the various positions on the fretboard,  then move to another chord type. Downside I see here is that it'll probably take me 5 years to cover the 4/5 basic chord types and be able to practice over a song! :)

- focus on one area of the fretboard at a time and practice all the chord types depending on what roots are available in that area. I'm tempted to go this way as it's the one on the Sheryl Bailey course I have, but it's only applied to Autumn Leaves and I'm worried it might leave me in the lurch for other songs...

Are there major downsides to each approach? Is one of them the "recommended" way to learn?

Thanks in advance!
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Comments

  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 321
    edited July 2019
    If you systematise it a bit, you don't have to learn that much.

    For example, if you learn the CAGED shapes, you basically need to learn 5 shapes for each of: major, minor, dominant, and their respective 7ths, and then learn where the various colour notes are (6th/13th, b9, 9, #9, 11, etc).

    And then you can adopt both of the approaches you list: 

    1. e.g. pick a chord, say Am7, and play the 5 shapes across the neck.

    2. Pick a chord progression, and try to play it one position using the 5 shapes to keep you in position.

    I tend to do 1 every time I pick up the guitar. I just name a random note and random chord flavour, and play it all over the neck.

    Also, you don't even necessarily need to learn 5 shapes, for me, the G shape arpeggios tend to be hard to finger across al 6 strings, so I tend to think of them as more extensions down the neck towards the nut from the E shape, and I tend to think of the D shape as extensions up the neck, away from the nut, from the octave on the E shape.

    I went through this a few years ago, and it didn't take that long -- weeks, not years -- although playing fluently over fast changes is very much still a work in progress. But on swing type tunes or Gypsy jazz, I can improvise pretty well using arpeggios.

    The main thing is knowing the notes on the fretboard, especially being secure on the E, A, and D strings, but you need to gradually extend that out so you can identify the colour notes on the upper strings. I could already read music, so the note names were already fairly well bedded in for me. 

    But something like 1 also works for that. Whenever you pick up the guitar, name a couple of random notes, and play them on every string.
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6378
    Good advice ^^^^^^
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • PonchoGregPonchoGreg Frets: 764
    That is super useful - didn't really think of linking it with learning chord shapes
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  • Matt_McGMatt_McG Frets: 321
    Chord shapes are the key, plus, once you have those, you add another 2 or 3 notes and you know the scales, too.

    There are lots of good CAGED system guides online.
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 1079
    By the root notes on the fretboard and the interval relationships between each other. Although the CAGED system is a great way to learn, you kinda move those shapes up and down the fretboard anyway.
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  • sev112sev112 Frets: 2739
    That all sounds right, but it is an enormous lot to take in

    i prefer learning where a major and minor 3rd is above any note (it’s easy because it’s always in the same place irrespective of note, other than when the B string is involved, and that’s easy because it’s one fret different only)   (One fret towards the nut in the next string for major 3rd, and 2 frets toward the nut for Minor 3rd.)

    then if if you want you can work out where the 5th is
    and that’s easy because it’s the same another string over from the 3rd, 3 frets up from the root, or 1fret from the minor 3rd, or 2 from the major 3rd.
    Or the 5th is 2 frets towards the bridge, next string over from the root.

    No massive complicated maps of the whole fretboard :)


    And if you want to break that down
    root plus major 3rd, plus minor 3rd, plus major 3rd get to the major 7th.
    and R+M3, +m3, +m3 gets you the Dominant 7th
    so as long as you know where to find the major and minor 3rds above a single note you can manufacture all the Major, Minor, Min7, Dom 7, and Maj7 Chords you want.

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  • hollywoodroxhollywoodrox Frets: 4085
    sev112 said:
    That all sounds right, but it is an enormous lot to take in

    i prefer learning where a major and minor 3rd is above any note (it’s easy because it’s always in the same place irrespective of note, other than when the B string is involved, and that’s easy because it’s one fret different only)   (One fret towards the nut in the next string for major 3rd, and 2 frets toward the nut for Minor 3rd.)

    then if if you want you can work out where the 5th is
    and that’s easy because it’s the same another string over from the 3rd, 3 frets up from the root, or 1fret from the minor 3rd, or 2 from the major 3rd.
    Or the 5th is 2 frets towards the bridge, next string over from the root.

    No massive complicated maps of the whole fretboard :)


    And if you want to break that down
    root plus major 3rd, plus minor 3rd, plus major 3rd get to the major 7th.
    and R+M3, +m3, +m3 gets you the Dominant 7th
    so as long as you know where to find the major and minor 3rds above a single note you can manufacture all the Major, Minor, Min7, Dom 7, and Maj7 Chords you want.

    THIS , this is what I am doing  as I have an idea of intervals already . When you do one and end up on the root you can start again , I try and say the note names as well hopefully this will enable me to find notes too. Plus you can make all the chords you need using the intervals , I wish I’d done it earlier , 
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    @PonchoGreg this is a big subject area and it’s pretty easy to get overwhelmed as there are a number of different approaches and a lot to learn etc. Everything here is in my opinion and what has worked best for me, but also what I’ve seen work really well for others too. 

    This is just a brief explanation but hopefully you’ll get the gist of it :smile: 

    To answer your first question, for now I’d work on getting get all chord types, everything in one area of the neck. This will allow you to start playing music sooner, rather than waiting until you’ve covered every chord type over the neck. 

    Understand how much stuff you need to know, a basic minimum so to speak of, for all twelve keys. This will give you a kind of finishing point. So...

    4 types of triads - maj, min, dim, aug
    5 types of 7ths - maj7, dom7, min7, m7b5, dim7

    Don't worry about doing anything else for now. There is so much mileage out of the above even before we start talking about inversions/extensions. 

    Get everything between frets 1-5. No open strings allowed and no going past fret 5. For example, start root based major triads at the lowest available note (F at fret 1) play the root, 3rd (A fret 5) and 5th (C fret 3 on A string). Move to F# and do a major triad (F# A# C#) , then G (G B D) and so on. Once you’ve done the A triad (this will be over the E A and D strings), move to Bb on the A string and carry on until you reach fret 5 on the high E string (hint, that’ll be the 5th of a D maj triad). Always R, 3 5. 

     You should notice how the restriction has forced you to a different shape for each major triad. This is really important as you’ll discover every practical possibility on each string set while working on playing in different keys at the same time.

    The beauty of this, is that you’ve done all the leg work here (as long as you know where your root note for any given chord/arp is) and it’s then surprisingly easy to cover the whole of the neck with each type.

    It’s a lot of work, but not as much as it initially seems once you get going. Pay attention to what notes change from one type to the next etc. Also for the time being only play each one within one octave.

    You absolutely can apply this to loads of different tunes too, not just Autumn Leaves. 

    Good luck :smile: 

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  • PonchoGregPonchoGreg Frets: 764
    Thanks so much for all the tips, guys - wizzes for you all :)
    Click here to see me butchering some classic solos!
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    A great exercise and advice here from around 12:50 onwards. You’ll zip around the neck at first, but the idea is to get things closer together through inversions over time. Working with restrictions is really useful. 

    https://youtu.be/QlpdfLxSHnE
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  • PonchoGregPonchoGreg Frets: 764
    Wow that's actually really interesting - I wouldn't have thought of breaking down the arpeggios into smaller chunks. Makes sense
    Click here to see me butchering some classic solos!
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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    Wow that's actually really interesting - I wouldn't have thought of breaking down the arpeggios into smaller chunks. Makes sense
    Absolutely. It’s kind of a problem with how we guitarists learn arpeggios. We tend to learn them over (at least) two octaves covering all six strings. This isn’t a problem in itself and is a good thing to do. But what happens is we just kind of play that whole arpeggio as that’s all we can see, or crowbar it in somehow in an unmusical way. That was definitely a problem for me for a while anyway.

    Reducing the amount of info and giving yourself restrictions will actually lead you to greater freedom in the long run. If we deal with a triad or 7th arp in the purest sense, so just 3 or 4 notes within one octave, it makes it much easier to learn where the notes are and which ones change to get different chord qualities. 

    Now that exercise is on one string set. What if you did the same exercise on the top three strings for a while? Or say just within frets 1-5? This would make you have to get different arpeggio shapes on different string sets and seeing how they knit together in position (still all root based at the moment). 

    It’s a fair bit of effort but well worth it and you’ll be flying after a while. 
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  • Great advice on this thread, this video may also be of some use to you:
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