Teeny Hi-Fi Amps

monquixote

I've currently got an old Denon mini system powering a couple of bookshelf speakers on my desk.

I'd quite like some kind of mini amplifier to replace it with ideally with a built in DAC.

Obvious contenders are the:

NAD D 3020 V2 

Denon PMA-60

Source will be my Macbook.

Any thoughts on these or alternatives from the Hi-Fi enthusiasts?

JezWynd

Possibly a bit basic for you but they get good reviews...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071Z81L6H/?coliid=IN89QB7AOGTY3

TTony

You don't get more teeny than these

https://nanomesher.com/nanosound/

Although you might end up breaking your engineer habit

Keefy

JezWynd said:

Possibly a bit basic for you but they get good reviews...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071Z81L6H/?coliid=IN89QB7AOGTY3

Worth it for the name alone:

strumjoughlamps

Is it just for when you are at the desk?

Mate has the Nad, corking little thing it is.. Personally though if spending that money I'd be looking at Sonos Amp for the freedom when not at desk.  So it might be worth considering 

monquixote

TTony said:

You don't get more teeny than these

https://nanomesher.com/nanosound/

I just want something to listen to rather than dick about with so I'd like a nice simple bit of consumer hardware. Also I'll be using it for Spotify anyway so laptop is better.

strumjoughlamps said:

Is it just for when you are at the desk?

Mate has the Nad, corking little thing it is.. Personally though if spending that money I'd be looking at Sonos Amp for the freedom when not at desk.  So it might be worth considering 

Yes it's purely for while I'm in my office when the laptop will always be on.

I have some Echo dots for multiroom in a few places.

TTony

monquixote said:

TTony said:

You don't get more teeny than these

https://nanomesher.com/nanosound/

I just want something to listen to rather than dick about with so I'd like a nice simple bit of consumer hardware. Also I'll be using it for Spotify anyway so laptop is better.

Thus far it's required minimal "dicking", DAC is excellent, and plays local/USB/NAS/OneDrive - and Spotify - sources.  3.5mm output too.  

Grumpyrocker

SMSL AD18 - had mine a year. It's fantastic. 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AD18-Bluetooth-Digital-Decoding-Amplifier/dp/B01M3ULDG9

monquixote

TTony said:

monquixote said:

TTony said:

You don't get more teeny than these

https://nanomesher.com/nanosound/

I just want something to listen to rather than dick about with so I'd like a nice simple bit of consumer hardware. Also I'll be using it for Spotify anyway so laptop is better.

Thus far it's required minimal "dicking", DAC is excellent, and plays local/USB/NAS/OneDrive - and Spotify - sources.  3.5mm output too.  

I'm comparing it against sticking a cable into my laptop

Megii

Have been thinking on similar lines myself - i.e. a fairly compact one-box dac/speaker amp/headphone amp. I'm liking what I read about the Denon, especially that it includes a good headphone amp and settings for different headphone impedance values. Am I right to think that the "audio out" on the NAD is basically for headphones?

monquixote

I'm angling towards the Denon as it turns out the Mac I have lacks optical.

Why do Apple seem to deliberately make macs worse?

monquixote

Still pondering this.

From looking around it appears that there are some very nice USB DACs from a Chinese company called Topping that you can get from Amazon.

Anyone tried one?

ThePrettyDamned

Can you not just plug a couple of speakers into the mac? 

monquixote

ThePrettyDamned said:

Can you not just plug a couple of speakers into the mac? 

It depends what you mean.

I could get a couple of powered speakers, but then that's relying on the headphone output of my Mac although a bit of research suggests Macs of that era have Cirrus Logic DAC chips which are fairly decent.

Powered speakers with a USB input would be the tidyest solution, but it's quite common for the little calss D amps in them to go pop and then you just have an expensive paper weight 

The other thing that bothers me is that the amps in a lot of powered speakers are the same chips as you would get in a £50 standalone class D amp, but they add £250 to the retail price of the speakers.

ThePrettyDamned

monquixote said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Can you not just plug a couple of speakers into the mac? 

It depends what you mean.

I could get a couple of powered speakers, but then that's relying on the headphone output of my Mac although a bit of research suggests Macs of that era have Cirrus Logic DAC chips which are fairly decent.

Powered speakers with a USB input would be the tidyest solution, but it's quite common for the little calss D amps in them to go pop and then you just have an expensive paper weight 

The other thing that bothers me is that the amps in a lot of powered speakers are the same chips as you would get in a £50 standalone class D amp, but they add £250 to the retail price of the speakers.

I meant just powered speakers - I don't know how much sound quality means to you, but sounding decent in a small space is probably possible with this sort of set up. Far from an expert though! 

monquixote

ThePrettyDamned said:

monquixote said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Can you not just plug a couple of speakers into the mac? 

It depends what you mean.

I could get a couple of powered speakers, but then that's relying on the headphone output of my Mac although a bit of research suggests Macs of that era have Cirrus Logic DAC chips which are fairly decent.

Powered speakers with a USB input would be the tidyest solution, but it's quite common for the little calss D amps in them to go pop and then you just have an expensive paper weight 

The other thing that bothers me is that the amps in a lot of powered speakers are the same chips as you would get in a £50 standalone class D amp, but they add £250 to the retail price of the speakers.

I meant just powered speakers - I don't know how much sound quality means to you, but sounding decent in a small space is probably possible with this sort of set up. Far from an expert though! 

It's certainly something I'm considering. The Denon system has a pair of half decent Missions attached to it so I'd need to get reasonably spendy if I'm going to replace the speakers with something better.

Rocker

ThePrettyDamned said:

Can you not just plug a couple of speakers into the mac? 

You can do just that.  But you will compromise the sound quality as the insides of a computer is a noisy place for a DAC and an amplifier (you will be using the headphone out).  Any device (DAC, amplifier etc) that can take a USB signal from your computer is almost always going to sound better than the headphone output.  And you don't need so called golden ears to hear the difference.

monquixote

Rocker said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Can you not just plug a couple of speakers into the mac? 

You can do just that.  But you will compromise the sound quality as the insides of a computer is a noisy place for a DAC and an amplifier (you will be using the headphone out).  Any device (DAC, amplifier etc) that can take a USB signal from your computer is almost always going to sound better than the headphone output.  And you don't need so called golden ears to hear the difference.

Usually I'd agree with you, but a Cirrus Logic DAC is actually better than some of the DACs you get on low end consumer kit.

PC soundcards are however almost always totally shit.

springhead

Might be a decent enough DAC but it will be at the mercy of the noise and crud that will be all over the power rails and ground. USB dac can suffer from the same problem if it’s powered and probably not isolated from the usb ground and 5V.  

monquixote

springhead said:

Might be a decent enough DAC but it will be at the mercy of the noise and crud that will be all over the power rails and ground. USB dac can suffer from the same problem if it’s powered and probably not isolated from the usb ground and 5V.  

This is very true.

Apple are generally fairly good in that regard, but I'd imagine your average Acer will be terrible regardless of what's in it.

Rocker

@Monquixote a DAC, however good it's name is, is not the same as a lightbulb.  Most DACs use the same or similar chips, it is how they are programmed that is the difference.  I would expect that DACs for computer installation use very basic programs.  And as has been stated: the amount of noise and crud from adjoining circuitry does not help.

To be fair, the built in DAC and headphone output combination into an old hi-fi amp plus speakers is good enough for replay of online videos etc.  Simply add an external DAC with USB into that same amp/speakers combination and you will hear a significant improvement in sound.  The headphone output will get you started though.....